I sure would like to wake up, Hello.

[Sailor]

Could you write what you mean by "my life" and who is experiencing it?

My life meaning my experiance(s). This awareness is doing AND being experiancing or witnessing.

What do you mean when you wrote about awareness not being automatic. Automatic for..? Are you "doing" awareness?[/quote]

Thanks, this is my confusion. Its not that I'm doing awareness, Its that unlike seeing hearing walking which all are completely happening of their own accord. These don't witness themselves. Walking doesn't witness awareness, hearing isn't aware of awareness. And the thought circle seems to be powered by awareness being aware of itself.
I don't want to get flakey and imaginative here. I'm just being honest about the actual experiance I'm having.

[Moonlight]

Ah language! So impossible to describe this.

What happens if we turn 'awareness being aware of itself' into simply 'aware-ing'? Life being not a noun, but a verb. Life life-ing, happening, aware-ing OF and AS walking, hearing, thinking. By the very nature of the different experiences happening, the 'flavor' of each is different. But all are manifestations of life. The subject/object collapses, all thats left is the experience.

Is it what your experience is?

[Sailor]

You have been so kind and generous here with me that I desire to make a really good account of my experiance to match your gift of attention. It's the conversation that is difficult not so much the experiance. Please give me a day or so to articulate. I do really want to thank you.
Mike

[Moonlight]

My dear Mike, you are the one I have to thank, for giving me the opportunity to be with you, talk with you and walk with you (or the no you :)). There is much love and appreciation on this side.

It is better to write spontaneously, without prior thinking. This keeps the writing 'fresh' and enables us also to get an idea of your clarity and seeing. There is sometimes only an intellectual understanding (which is not the case here, I think), so writing spontaneously helps us see the difference.

I hope you understand. I hope you also know that I really appreciate your intention, and I accept your thanks gratefully and happily.

Much love.

[Sailor]

My dear Mike, you are the one I have to thank, for giving me the opportunity to be with you, talk with you and walk with you (or the no you :)). There is much love and appreciation on this side.

It is better to write spontaneously, without prior thinking. This keeps the writing 'fresh' and enables us also to get an idea of your clarity and seeing. There is sometimes only an intellectual understanding (which is not the case here, I think), so writing spontaneously helps us see the difference.

I hope you understand. I hope you also know that I really appreciate your intention, and I accept your thanks gratefully and happily.

Much love.

Never did figure out how to quote a single line.
Yes thanks again. I did want to be coherent and thoughtful here but the best I could come up with was "Stuff happens". So i'll just be spontainous here. Is there a self? Well yes, there is awarness here I call Mike. More to the point is there a separate self? Here but Not separate. Which is kind of wild because everything is here and in movement all unique unto itself and all composed of the same identity. To try and think\understand is like asking an inappropriate question. Thats where my circular thoughts pointing to more thoughts came from. It was like placing two mirrors in front of each other, it goes on infinatly but never resolves.
But on trying to describe. "IT'S HERE" and "IT IS A HAPPENING" What is "IT"? Every aspect of awareness.
Maby like when one goes to bed falls asleep and starts dreaming. You are having this experiance filled with all kind Of things, doings, meanings, experiances. The thing is every single aspect of the dream has the same identity.

So to sum up All of these things and differences and beings and qualities, anything experianced, while being unique
(and all quite beautiful I add) all have the same identity. The same one I have and call Mike. Wow!

[Moonlight]

Is there a self? Well yes, there is awarness here I call Mike. More to the point is there a separate self? Here but Not separate.

and

So to sum up All of these things and differences and beings and qualities, anything experianced, while being unique
(and all quite beautiful I add) all have the same identity. The same one I have and call Mike.

One of the common, what shall I say, bumps to true liberation, is identification with awareness. But ALL identity is assumed, given the property of ownership by the mind.

Tell me, does life need an identity?

[Sailor]

One of the common, what shall I say, bumps to true liberation, is identification with awareness. But ALL identity is assumed, given the property of ownership by the mind.

Tell me, does life need an identity?[/quote]

No.
But How can you talk about anything without identifying it in some way?
Having a time in description here. Words fail me.
This all is a "HAPPENING" no need for an identity, reason or purpose. But it is real.
Thats the best I can do for now.
Thanks

[Sailor]

One of the common, what shall I say, bumps to true liberation, is identification with awareness.

I spent a time reflecting on this and Yes I was making awareness personal.

[Moonlight]

Now, Mike, here are the big five questions. some you've already done, more than once too. Please answer them again, after this further clarification in your seeing.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

4) How does it feel to see this?

5) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

6) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Write in one or more posts, up to you. Much love to you.

[Sailor]

Thank you.
Will have to wait untill after work today.
Talk to you then.

[Sailor]

Now, Mike, here are the big five questions. some you've already done, more than once too. Please answer them again, after this further clarification in your seeing.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

4) How does it feel to see this?

5) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

6) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Write in one or more posts, up to you. Much love to you.

[Sailor]

Now, Mike, here are the big five questions. some you've already done, more than once too. Please answer them again, after this further clarification in your seeing.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

4) How does it feel to see this?

5) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

6) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Write in one or more posts, up to you. Much love to you.

[Sailor]

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
This is very interesting. No, No one here. "Ever" is a story thought so No to that as well.
The interesting part is the experiance itself. I was having a go round with experiancing experiance.
When it is just experiance period. The awareness of an experiance is not separate, just part of
the happening itself. It comes as a whole package. Lame explanation,but no one seeing, all contained in the experiance\aware\happening.



Hi, Glad i'm not a typist sorry for the repeat sendings.

[Sailor]

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
Separate happens when one experiances subject and object. I guess by labeling. Not sure.
What 's real is objective, when one becomes subjective then illusion can get taken(mistaken) for real.
Difficult to explain for me.

[Sailor]

4) How does it feel to see this?

OK, no big deal really. Physically I feel fine, lighter.
More courious than anything else. I'm still absorbing here.
Calm mind experiancing. Very pleasent so far.