Seeking a Guide : )

[vinceschubert]

'morning Karen.
What is your experiencing of a higher being ?
What is your experiencing of fear surrounding your cancer ?

love

vince

[Kallie]

Hi vince,

'morning Karen.
What is your experiencing of a higher being ?
What is your experiencing of fear surrounding your cancer ?

love

vince

I hope you had a great day. Sun finally showed itself here & getting to be outdoors was much appreciated.

What is referred to as the Green Eyed Monster called fear has not shown itself in so long, it can’t be remembered. Upon diagnosis 1 ½ or so years ago, there were some fear thoughts. It seems that the practice of DE was being used in some form & not even known. If fear tried to take hold, a rubber band was kept around the wrist & snapped. I would see that today is a lovely day, nothing hurts, don’t make problems where there are none. Stay Right Here, Right Now & a walk or something would ensue. In retrospect & from memory it is seen now that things got taken care of, pretty much like everything else has, on auto pilot. Staying present. No past. No future. Just now. That is how this journey has been experienced. Things are good, even when they appear to not be. The whole journey has been somewhat surreal, it’s like people ask me how are you so calm & peaceful & I reply, I don’t know, peace is just here. The absence of fear has been a real blessing because it can be recalled from memory at how thoughts can cause a lot of suffering. Where is fear? Don’t know, but it ain’t here : ) Thank you , thank you, thank you!

Keep in mind that when I got diagnosed there was a deep dark hole of depression that was just being crawled out of, but the light was being seen by time the body went wonky. The contrast between now & then is palpable & if this saga of depression & cancer had to be played out to have the understanding & the closeness to God then it has been a gift, a real gift. I claim no religion at all or any spiritual doctrine or practice. This is just the simple story of a skinny middle aged white woman the world knows as Karen. Round & round she goes, where she’ll stop, nobody knows~ How this story will unfold, is not known to me, but there is peace with that.

My experience or belief of a higher being is that we are all ONE. God is everywhere & we are all it, living, breathing, making up stories, LOL~ but it is, we are all God / The Living God /Life. Eternal. No separation.

Just want to say something, y’all remember I tend to talk a lot : )
Whether or not admission thru the imaginary gate is granted or not, matters not. Seems to me that it is the journey that matters. I’ve enjoyed the unfolding & additional seeing that has definitely occurred here. Thank you Robin & hugs to you if you read this, thank you vince & any other guides that may have read this story.

With Eternal Love & Gratitude,
Karen

[vinceschubert]

I see it clearly now

Karen, what sees it clearly ?

[Kallie]

Kallie wrote:I see it clearly now

Karen, what sees it clearly ?

Like I said there was definitely confusion about control. I see it clearly now though, that whatever happens, happens without consent or invitation. In reality (?) now, since there is no separation anywhere can anything really be labeled good or bad, positive or negative anymore when you realize that it's all just life, living.

Had to find out what you were referencing. Language error. Should have been written, it (the illusion of separation)has been seen clearly now or something to that effect. The language thing is real tricky, especially for one who tends to respond in a hurry & not mull things over to much. It’s almost scary to write here, or anywhere now with this new way of seeing things, but well thoughts of fright are just that, thoughts : ) & there really is no fear lurking!

Feel free to point away. Hungry & tired now. Hope you had a great day!

As always, thanks!
x0x
Karen

[vinceschubert]

Morning Karen. Yes, thank you, i have great days - including the shit that arises.
Here are some questions from other guides..

Are there ways that the illusion occasionally pops up and how does that unfolds and resolve (again focusing on Direct Experience).

You say "There is the body. There is seeing of a plant. There is seeing of space in between body and plant." How do you reconcile this in Direct Experience ? (reference separation)

You write "If fear tried to take hold, a rubber band was kept around the wrist & snapped. I would see that today is a lovely day, nothing hurts, don’t make problems where there are none. Stay Right Here, Right Now & a walk or something would ensue." Is this replacing a negative response for a positive response? Is this SEEing?

love

vince

[Kallie]

Hi vince,

Are there ways that the illusion occasionally pops up and how does that unfolds and resolve (again focusing on Direct Experience).

Are you kidding? No enlightenment found here vince~ Not sure how to answer this, as DE is only found in NOW, everything else is a result of memory/thought. Uggghhh. Think it’s hard to communicate here, Karen? Try talking about this with anyone you know. LOL. Life is lived within the illusion, with other peoples stories, ideas & thoughts on how they think the world works. Only difference is it has been seen that it is all just a bunch of stories, so hardly anything is taken seriously anymore, even in the midst of what might seem like a problem, a seeming uncomfortable situation, the knowing that it’s just a story runs in the background & functioning in the world carries on, with a lot more smiling going on : ) Some of this was seen in Al Anon. TMI.

You say "There is the body. There is seeing of a plant. There is seeing of space in between body and plant." How do you reconcile this in Direct Experience ? (reference separation)

There is a body, there is a plant, there is space. Body, plant, space. All labels. Might as well be foot, mouth,& lump of coal. Does it matter? Tell me. Point me. All labels & with or without labels, all life.

You write "If fear tried to take hold, a rubber band was kept around the wrist & snapped. I would see that today is a lovely day, nothing hurts, don’t make problems where there are none. Stay Right Here, Right Now & a walk or something would ensue." Is this replacing a negative response for a positive response? Is this SEEing?

Was that “seeing” at the time of the experience? NO, but it was a tool used. It was all that was had at the time & it was useful to help stay present & although nothing then is seen as it is today, it was indeed seen then as well as today, that NOW is all that is, ever. Just did the best that could be done with what info that was had. It is seen now that all thoughts are just that, thoughts. They come & go, like the wind, wanted or unwanted & even the alleged scary ones, aren’t : )

Should have stopped with the question of fear regarding cancer as just being absent without further explanation. It was learned/seen in Al Anon, that there is no need to justify, rationalize or explain, but it's like this story telling & explaining just takes off on auto pilot. Wow. It is so engrained.

Gotta say, sometimes feels like an imaginary puppy chasing it's tail in the hopes of an imaginary reward or treat, and it is wondered, why? There has been so much dropping this past year that it seems to be that freedom has always been present, there has just been so much clutter & conditioning to dislodge. It's astonishing, really.

Goodnight vince. Sorry you got involved in this mess yet? LOL. Eternally grateful. Really.

Hugs,
Karen

[vinceschubert]

Some more questions Karen;

"What does "me" point to? Nothing. A label. Becoming an empty vessel as more & more old ideas & stories are realized & let go of, but, for the sake of operating in this world, me would refer to said vessel called Karen."

What is this vessel you are becoming? Is it the body or something else? If it is something else, can you please describe it?

Can you answer this one (again) but purely from a perspective of direct experiencing.
Please find some examples to describe.
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
Do you make anything happen?
Give examples from your experience.

love

vince

[vinceschubert]

...and another exercise;
Karen, sit comfortably, close your eyes and take a few deep breaths, then read below... Noticing direct experience & describing reactions.


















Your cancer has returned.

[Kallie]

.and another exercise;
Karen, sit comfortably, close your eyes and take a few deep breaths, then read below... Noticing direct experience & describing reactions.

Your cancer has returned.

Robin,
Since we are doing such profound work together, there is a desire to share something with you so that you know where " I AM". My doc called this morning & confirmed that the cancer has returned & is in liver. Can't feel or find liver by sensation. Can't feel or find cancer by sensation. By DE neither exists. I know that this message is not DE, just part of the "Karen" saga, but perhaps it is relevant in unraveling old ideas & beliefs. Thru out the cancer journey, whoever this is, whatever this is, has been blessed by for the most part, by the absence of fear, live or die, it is just a journey, nothing ever really dies. When I came here to LU, complete surrender & acceptance of whatever is, was in effect & was & is the goal. Life is in charge of life. Sometimes the path needs to be cleared.

Kallie wrote:"What does "me" point to? Nothing. A label. Becoming an empty vessel as more & more old ideas & stories are realized & let go of, but, for the sake of operating in this world, me would refer to said vessel called Karen."

What is this vessel you are becoming? Is it the body or something else? If it is something else, can you please describe it?

Can you answer this one (again) but purely from a perspective of direct experiencing.
Please find some examples to describe.
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
Do you make anything happen?
Give examples from your experience.

There is no me, so no to everything.

Kallie wrote:"What does "me" point to? Nothing. A label. Becoming an empty vessel as more & more old ideas & stories are realized & let go of, but, for the sake of operating in this world, me would refer to said vessel called Karen."

What is this vessel you are becoming? Is it the body or something else? If it is something else, can you please describe it?

Metaphor in language. As more noticing of what thoughts, stories, ideas are, & conditioning is seen there seems to be more of a lightness, a seeing that there is no I, no me, no attachment, just watching as life does whatever it does.

[vinceschubert]

vinceschubert wrote:
.and another exercise;
Karen, sit comfortably, close your eyes and take a few deep breaths, then read below... Noticing direct experience & describing reactions.
vinceschubert wrote:
Your cancer has returned.

Karen, when this exercise was given, it was your reactions in the NOW that i wanted described. Not memory of the actual event.
Now, let's have another go at this;
sit comfortably,
close your eyes,
take a few deep breaths, then
describe the processes that you notice as you react to...
Karen avoids answering questions.

[Kallie]

Kallie wrote:vinceschubert wrote:
.and another exercise;
Karen, sit comfortably, close your eyes and take a few deep breaths, then read below... Noticing direct experience & describing reactions.
vinceschubert wrote:
Your cancer has returned.

Karen, when this exercise was given, it was your reactions in the NOW that i wanted described. Not memory of the actual event.
Now, let's have another go at this;
sit comfortably,
close your eyes,
take a few deep breaths, then
describe the processes that you notice as you react to...
Karen avoids answering questions.

Dear Vince,
Karen doesn't avoid answering questions, she just does the best she can, as a newbie to this forum. Karen is still here, so I'd say that she is not avoiding anything.

Upon first question of your cancer has returned, I was like guess he hadn't read the post already sent to Robin, & subsequent chastising for going to memory etc as opposed to DE in NOW & gave you the benefit of the doubt,(squashed DE thoughts of unkind thoughts of you for not being aware of this) & re pasted my prior post, not realizing it was a trick question?

In DE with both of these recent questions, the first things that came up were anger towards you, because it was believed by me that you were asking another question already answered There was no feeling,thought, emotion about the cancer returning, yesterday or today. The element of surprise has passed. For the moment it is being dealt with. Most days go by without thoughts of it. Will that change? Possibly, but cannot say & cannot say when that might happen.

Only anger, frustration and some unkind thoughts towards you, with some pretty choice labeling & some things I wanted to tell you to do which involved a kangaroo, which led to a quickening of the heart a bit. It was seen that these are just a bunch of thoughts that won't ruin my night, whatever is left of it. Have looked to see if the anger directed towards you is misdirected, but cannot see how it is, but on the bright side, you're probably none of those things those thoughts said you were & well, doing that to a kangaroo might not be legal or safe, but what do I know about Australia?

Not sure what you are pointing to here? Trying to get a rise, that anger, frustration, fear, sadness, thoughts, imagination etc still arise? Do tell & have a good night/day.

Despite it all,
Love,
karen

[vinceschubert]

Have looked to see if the anger directed towards you is misdirected, but cannot see how it is,

Say more on this.

because it was believed by me that you were asking another question already answered

Did you see that this was a story (accurate or not) created by Karen ?

a quickening of the heart a bit.

Was this experienced as a sensation ?

Not sure what you are pointing to here? Trying to get a rise,

Yes, wanted to see what would arise and how you felt about telling it straight.

Karen is still here, so I'd say that she is not avoiding anything.

This sounds like Karen is being defended ?

that anger, frustration, fear, sadness, thoughts, imagination etc still arise?

Of course they do. i wanted to see how you responded to them.
Do answer the questions, but also include a description of the processes that went on while considering the question.

As it IS,
Love

vince

[Kallie]

vince,

Kallie wrote:
Have looked to see if the anger directed towards you is misdirected, but cannot see how it is,
Say more on this.

Wanted to make sure that the anger/frustration that was felt towards vince was not hiding anger about the cancer etc..I looked, honestly looked & it was you for sure.

Kallie wrote:
because it was believed by me that you were asking another question already answered
Did you see that this was a story (accurate or not) created by Karen ?

Of course, but when answered the first time, made up or not, it was believed that you were negligent.

Kallie wrote:
a quickening of the heart a bit.
Was this experienced as a sensation ?

Yes, it was a bodily sensation

Kallie wrote:
Not sure what you are pointing to here? Trying to get a rise,
Yes, wanted to see what would arise and how you felt about telling it straight.

The whole time here I have been as honest as possible. This life is simple & quiet & not filled with many "triggers", but yeah, they come up from time to time, ask my husband.

Kallie wrote:
Karen is still here, so I'd say that she is not avoiding anything.
This sounds like Karen is being defended ?

Hmmm. I see what you are saying, and part of that is part of an old story line given to Karen by her father, that she is not a quitter, although it is sometimes wondered if that was sage advise. There is nothing to defend against, you are entitled to your opinion to see Karen however you like, but that's your story, isn't it? Just as the story of not being a quitter, is in actuality is an old idea held by my father, passed on to Karen & never questioned. Hmmm??
Many things to ponder over this one, a double edged sword.

Hope that all the questions have been covered.

HUGS
Karen

[vinceschubert]

Do answer the questions, but also include a description of the processes that went on while considering the question.

Not once, did you "include a description of the processes that went on while considering the question."

Did you see that this was a story (accurate or not) created by Karen ?
Of course, but...

You jump over the whole question when you say "Of course,". i was/am not interested in the content of the story. i want to know if you recognize that you are heading off into storyland and that emotions and sensations that ensue are the result of concept.
The emphasis is the recognition that a story line is active.
When you believe something, it is always a thought (about it), right ? (if not, give examples)
How does believing work ? What is belief ? What processes occur, when a belief is acted on ?

Do you have a concept of 'deepening' ? (what we are doing here may induce deepening)

love

vince

[Kallie]

G'Day vince,

Very tired with many practical things to tend to today away from house.
Will get back here asap, hopefully before sleep beckons again.

Hugs,
karen