no-self or no fixed-self?

[kleinzeit]

Hi C

What is "an unmistakable sense of Aliveness"? Apart from that question, I need to do some more work on your questions; about choice (where is it?), about responsible me (again, where is it?)

I have a problem with describing how I change conditions, because this depends on memory and I know from experience that memory is not reliable. The question of what happens preceding a change in conditions seems to be something to do with behaviour. I can act in one way or another, and depending on which happens, the future conditions of "me" changes (there is more or less remorse, aggravation, sorrow, happiness, easy-ness). How come Klienziet acts in ways which lead to happiness and easy-ness a lot of the time?

Love

K

[Canfora]

Hi K,

What is "an unmistakable sense of Aliveness"?

If I ask “Are you alive?” you wouldn’t need to think to answer me. You would say "yes, of course I am" and you would give me all the evidences to prove it: “I know I’m alive because I’m seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling and thinking.”

This certainty of being alive can be described as an unmistakable sense of Aliveness, as Neil did in the article. Some people call it awareness, the witness, God in me, a sense of self…

What’s important is to differentiate between what’s a assumption: “I’m seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling and thinking.” and what’s true: there is seeing, there is hearing, there is smelling, there is tasting, there is feeling and there is thinking but all this is just happening and an I isn’t necessary for any of this to take place.

When the conditions are the right ones, "aliveness" takes place, as a sun, a dog, a mosquito, a rose or a kleinzeit.

How come Klienziet acts in ways which lead to happiness and easy-ness a lot of the time?

Because the character Klienziet was "programmed" to be like it is.

Our experiences are not the same - we don’t have the same "sotware and hardware" – how could we be equal?

And how could you be different from what you are???

Love, C

[kleinzeit]

Hi C

You say:, "Klienziet was "programmed" to be like it is". I have changed over the years, is not past-Klienzeit one of the conditions upon which now-Klienzeit arises? I don't understand how choice can be abscent from this process?

Maybe it isn't. Choice is just another experience? "I" don't choose, but choice is happening? Choice is a mental event, a thought which guides a particular class of actions (the ones I'm thinking of are the ones which clearly effect future experience). There doesn't need to be an "I" doing the choosing.

Also, thank you for the clarification of what "sense of aliveness" is. It seems to be "awareness of sensing"- actually the place where the "I" would seem to dwell, where the senser would be. This ties in with my experience of consciousness (I used the term "discriminating awareness"). The discriminatiion itself is a manifestation of life - not of an individual. This is quite an interesting position, as it solves the problem of ethics where there is no responsibility (maybe?).

Thanks again for this conversation.

Love

K

[Canfora]

Hi K,

I have changed over the years, is not past-Klienzeit one of the conditions upon which now-Klienzeit arises?

Life is changing all the time, impermanence abounds.

Can you find a past-Klienzeit? You can think about a past-Klienzeit but the thinking happens now. There is only this now. Past-Klienzeit is a thought happening now. Can you see this?

Memory can make us belief that what was is still real. If you lost your memory would you still be past-Klienzeit? What is this past-Klienzeit made of?

There doesn't need to be an "I" doing the choosing.

Yes, choosing happens all the time. Klienzeit has preferences. How does choosing happens? If I ask you "do you want to eat a cookie or an apple?" how is the choice made?

This is quite an interesting position, as it solves the problem of ethics where there is no responsibility (maybe?).

You are trying to figure this out with your thinking. This is not like making a puzzle were the goal is to put all the pieces in the correct place. Analysing concepts doesn't help here.

When I ask you to see I'm not telling you to go to your head, I'm telling you to feel what's true, as if you were born now. When you were very young (let's say one year old) you knew nothing about a Klienzeit. You were experiencing life without thinking about life. Life is a verb = seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling and thinking. We learn that there is a noun doing all this: "I choose." This I is an illusion.

How can you know that? It’s simple, so simple that your mind is covering the true with thoughts, with the need to understand, with the searching of the true.

You just need to do a few deep breaths and relax.

And look! Just that, look!

What’s real in your direct experience? What is happening here and now (the only place the truth can be)? Can you find a you?

Love, C

[kleinzeit]

Hello C

This has gone 'round in a circle and come back to this: there is a sense experience (bird song, pressure on thigh, itch), and a sense object (bird, chair, finger). That is all. I agree with you on this.

What there also is is a kind of melancholy feeling. Like I want to end this conversation because it makes me feel sad, disconnected somehow.

That's all

Love

K

[Canfora]

Hi K,

Thank you for your open and honest response.

What there also is is a kind of melancholy feeling. Like I want to end this conversation because it makes me feel sad, disconnected somehow.

In my experience, feeling sadness or fear around the thought that "I" is an illusion is something that can be expected.

I invite you to close your eyes and to think about what's causing this sadness and this feeling of being disconnected.

Allow any feelings that came to your awareness to just be there. Welcome sadness and disconnection with open arms and notice where you experience them in the body - watch the feelings, study them. Allow them for as long as they are there.

Then share your experience with me.

With love, C

[kleinzeit]

Hi C

OK, thanks for that. I'm going camping for three days - so no internet until after that. I'll be watching the feelings, and I'll get back to you.

Thanks again

Love

K

[Canfora]

Hi K,

Camping sounds good. Drop your concepts and be with the camping experience!

Stay with this in the background - life is, you aren't and see if it's true.

Have fun!

Looking forward to hear from you.

Love, C

[kleinzeit]

Hello Canfora

So; there's definitely something in this - but I can't deal with it now, I have a comittment to the end of October and I can't do both things at once it has become clear. I'll come back here in Early November and see if you are free to/ want to continue. I want to say a huge thank you to you for your attention, patience and kindness so far.

Much Love

K

[Canfora]

Hello, K.

Thank you for letting me know you need some time. Come back when you feel the time is right. I really loved talking to you.

Much love, Canfora

[Canfora]

Hi again, K.

I just want to say that I think you saw what I've been pointing to at the beggining of our conversation because of an answer you posted in June 27th:

So, if I "put on" the "not I" glasses, and look at my discriminating awareness, I can't see it at all. It actually isn't there.

You couldn't see nothing because nothing was there to see - no I, me, awareness, sense of self, decisor, etc.

This seeing is really as simple as that. I didn't tell you that at the time because I saw that your thinking wouldn't let you believe how simple seeing is and I thought we should investigate more. Maybe this little observation can help you in your quest.

With love, C

[kleinzeit]

Thank you.

K

[kleinzeit]

Hello Canfora, are you still there? I'll be able to give lots of attention to this practice after November 11th - are you still interested in guiding me? If not, thanks for the help so far.

K

[Canfora]

Hello K, what a nice surprise! I'm happy to see you!
Of course I am! Come back when you feel the time is right. I'll be here :)

[kleinzeit]

Excellent - I'll be in touch soon. :-)

Thanx

K