Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

[Tao]

Hi Vince

Are you saying that because you felt 'I' was about to disappear,that there is an actual 'I' somewhere ?

Well I guess the point is that there never was an 'I', but that the illusion of 'I' became transparent for a moment.

Of course, this is all a story. How can there be direct experiencing of a brain ?

I guess there can't be.

It's all states of consciousness

More stories ?

each one is just a shift in perception, a shift in the way things appear.

..but yes, is ALL that is Real anything more than the perceiving of Experiencing ?

No, it is only perceiving of experiencing. It seems that experiencing is perceived from different viewpoints. It's all perception. The stories that seem so real, the feeling of connectedness, followed by the feeling of disconnectedness, rejection, is only perception, not the way things are. Thought and feeling comes together to create a sense of separation, which causes dissatisfaction. The stories seem so believable, because the suffering, or joy, that they bring about, feels very real. Discomfort is experienced, and then dissatisfaction with NOW happens. Or happiness happens, things are going well within story mode, so thoughts get attached to the 'going well' and create further stories about how it will improve 'my' future. Fantasies happen, and then, life doesn't live up to projected fantasies, and suffering occurs again. Depression, and then a letting go, and a starting again. Then things go well again, then thoughts attach to the going well, and it goes round and round.

love
Benny

[vinceschubert]

then thoughts attach to the...

Say more about this. How do thoughts attach to anything ?

vince

[Tao]

then thoughts attach to the...

Say more about this. How do thoughts attach to anything ?

vince

It's more like the thoughts create an attachment to a story. So, when things appear to be going well, many thoughts will come about how well things are going, and how things are going to go, or where things need to go from here, how the story should unfold. Thoughts seem to 'hold on to' a story, a concept, an idea. Thoughts continue to re-appear around this particular story - this is the holding on, the story won't be dropped, and these thoughts are looking for a certain outcome to story. Of course it never goes the way thoughts expect/want it to, and why should it? Yet when it doesn't, pain arises, deep existential pain with thoughts that create strong frustration, depression, a feeling of being drained through the whole being.

This goes round in cycles. There is conditional joy, when things APPEAR to be going well, and then there is deep pain when things APPEAR to be going badly, then eventually, thoughts let go, give up on that particular story, mood is reset, and thoughts then look for something else and the cycle goes round and round.

Benny

[vinceschubert]

these thoughts are looking for a certain outcome to story.

..and story being a thought stream, right ?
It would seem that there are thoughts that perhaps are not SEEn, that give some legitimacy to the story thoughts ?


love

vince

[Tao]

these thoughts are looking for a certain outcome to story...and story being a thought stream, right ?

Yeah. Thoughts interpreting experience a certain way and creating a story out of it. Repetetive and cyclical loops of thoughts that create frustration and craving, or pleasure and grasping, depending on interpretation.

On one side, things are interpreted as going as planned, pleasurable, happy feelings arise. Thoughts treat it as salvation - the answer to all problems. Attachment to pleasureable feelings also happens.

Then the other side kicks in, things are interpreted as going not as thoughts had planned. Suffering happens, 'why does it never go my way' might be the thought tone. Feelings of resignation, a loss of will, a loss of energy. Eventually, starting over again. A back and forth within story mode, a tape loop of thoughts, depending upon the inner weather.

It would seem that there are thoughts that perhaps are not SEEn, that give some legitimacy to the story thoughts ?

Yes possibly.
Benny

[vinceschubert]

things are interpreted as going as planned, pleasurable, happy feelings arise. ...things are interpreted as going not as thoughts had planned. Feelings of resignation, a loss of will, a loss of energy.

Do the feelings precede or succeed the thoughts ? (don't say what you think. Wait for an opportunity to LOOK.)

How many years of conditioning these reactions ?
Are you still chuckling (with stomach contraction) with each Recognition that you have started living the story ?
Do you have a story that these feelings should go away with SEEing the delusion (of self) for what it is ?
Do/have you meditate(d) for more than a few months ?

love

vince

[Tao]

Do the feelings precede or succeed the thoughts ? (don't say what you think. Wait for an opportunity to LOOK.)

Well there is a feeling tone. This feeling tone 'flavours' the thoughts. If the feeling tone is darker, more fearful, more negative in nature, it will give rise to thoughts that interpret things more negatively, from a more fearful perspective. These thoughts then give rise to additional feelings, like the feelings of resignation and so on,
that rest on top of the initial feeling tone.

How many years of conditioning these reactions ?

Nearly 31. Things are slowly changing. Reactions to the feelings are much less than in the past.

Are you still chuckling (with stomach contraction) with each Recognition that you have started living the story ?

Perhaps not as often as I need to. I will do my best to get back into this.

Do you have a story that these feelings should go away with SEEing the delusion (of self) for what it is ?

Erm, in all honesty, yes. Or at least when the negative feelings arise there are stories that say it is not right to be feeling that way.

There is a natural desire to feel love and connection, unity, wholeness. And so the 'I' wants to feel love, and feel loved, and feel united with apparent 'other'.

When there is the opposite, fear, isolation, disconnectedness, incompleteness, then strong desires arise, strong thoughts arise, believable stories arise. One wants to feel whole. Experience is unpleasant, painful.

On the other hand, consciously, I do not believe the feelings will go away with SEEing, they will still be there in full power, but they won't pinch as much, there won't be suffering as they are SEEN for what they are.

Do/have you meditate(d) for more than a few months ?

It depends what you'd call meditation. Formal meditations, no. Sitting with a broad awareness of experience, sitting with awareness, awareness of feelings, thoughts, sounds, body, and so on, yes.

Just LOOKing really.

love
Benny

[Gomi]

Hi there! i'm home now. Very jet lagged, but present.:-)

Want to continue with a couple of past quotes:

I don't think the truth of no-self has been fully SEEN yet. It felt like 'I' was about to disappear.

thoughts then give rise to additional feelings, like the feelings of resignation and so on,
that rest on top of the initial feeling tone.

One wants to feel whole.

natural desire to feel love and connection, unity, wholeness.

Can thoughts, feelings, desires, connection be experienced outside Presence?
Can you find a time when Presence is not?
Can Presence be turned on and off?
It appears you have a steadfast commitment to daily posting. It is very common for many of us to do the assignments given to us. How is the commitment to SEEing and living inside of inquiry when conditioning kicks in?

Love,
Gomi

[Tao]

Hi Gomi,

Nice to have you back :)

Can thoughts, feelings, desires, connection be experienced outside Presence?
Can you find a time when Presence is not?
Can Presence be turned on and off?

Presence to me means the same as awareness, so I don't fully understand this. When one rises above thought, one is present. Presence in this sense, is not always 'on'. There is no presence in sleep, except in lucid dreaming where presence enters. And also, in this sense of the word, thoughts, feelings, desires, can and do happen when there is no presence. In fact it is more common for there to be no presence.

So what does presence mean in the way you are using it?

It appears you have a steadfast commitment to daily posting. It is very common for many of us to do the assignments given to us. How is the commitment to SEEing and living inside of inquiry when conditioning kicks in?

Well, I'm always LOOKing at what is going on within conditioning, within story mode, which reveals insight, a process that is unfolding. Conditioning does seem to be slowly thinning, yet it is still very strong at times.

I can watch the stories, do what they do, create attachment to a fantasy, and cause pain when that fantasy doesn't become reality, time and time again. Over and over, 'I' become intoxicated by a story, hypnotized by a fantasy, it builds up hope of some kind of beautiful future moment, until it all appears to fail, and all hope is lost again, feelings of exhaustion, hopelessness, then it all starts over again. Cyclical story mode, creating the false hope, frustration and despair that it does.

Life is lived largely inside of inquiry, inquiry is happening all of it's own accord. Motivation for LOOKing, and chuckling and so on has been poor recently though.

love
Benny

[Gomi]

Back at ya! Nice to be back and in communication!

When one rises above thought, one is present.

Please revisit the candle exercise on Presence. You said that this seemed like a good portal to the Living Presence. Let the questions, listed under the directions, reveal itself as Living Awareness . Add this question to the others.' Do you actually experience that thoughts rise 'above' the Living Presence?' This is an important point in fine tuning. As a guide, i am here only to point you in a direction to help you LOOK..not tell you what Presence is so you can mentally get it.

Cyclical story mode, creating the false hope, frustration and despair that it does.

Yes. That is what i saw upon my return. I've been gone for a while. Even with a different guide's pointings, your response seems to recycle into the same patterns. (Which is why i asked you about your commitment to SEEing and living inside of inquiry when conditioning kicks in.)

Motivation for LOOKing, and chuckling and so on has been poor recently though.

Can you OBSERVE what occurs when the motivation is 'poor'? (When stories become intoxicating and you let them play out.) Please report your 'observations', not mental analysis.

Love,
Gomi

[Gomi]

Dearest Benny,
It has been a great joy working together. If it is OK with you, vince will continue to guide you now. Maybe new pointing is called for.
There is only one heart.If ever you want to talk, always feel free to PM me.
Loving~
Gomi

[Tao]

Dearest Benny,
It has been a great joy working together. If it is OK with you, vince will continue to guide you now. Maybe new pointing is called for.
There is only one heart.If ever you want to talk, always feel free to PM me.
Loving~
Gomi

Hey Gomi,

Yes that is fine with me. It certainly has been a great joy, I have really appreciated you and can't thank you enough. :) I will miss your guidance.

Love

Benny

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Benny.

Motivation for LOOKing, and chuckling and so on has been poor recently though.

Ok, there's two 'levels' here. On the first, 'normal' communication level, i get what you are saying.
The second level leads us deep into unfamiliar territory. Here we take a 'normal' sentence and break it down to a primal, literal, understanding, which may trigger an epiphany.
So, "Motivation", how does this work ?
Are we talking an urge, an emotion/feeling of wanting ?
Are we simply stating that the object of motivation, didn't happen ?
Are we saying that the thought story of a result isn't present ?
Something else ?

"LOOKing", what is that ?
Is it something that Benny DOES ?
Is it something that happens when Benny (apparently) does something else ?
Is there a process involved ?
If some'thing' is SEEn, can it be unSEEN ?
What is forgetting ?
What is re-mind-ing ?

love

vince

[Tao]

Hi Vince,

It is morning here, so I will look at this today and reply this evening.

Love
Benny

[Tao]

Hi Vince

Ok, there's two 'levels' here. On the first, 'normal' communication level, i get what you are saying.
The second level leads us deep into unfamiliar territory. Here we take a 'normal' sentence and break it down to a primal, literal, understanding, which may trigger an epiphany.

Ah got you.

So, "Motivation", how does this work ?
Are we talking an urge, an emotion/feeling of wanting ?

Yes, motivation is an urge to do, which stems from a feeling of wanting.

Are we simply stating that the object of motivation, didn't happen ?

Yes

Are we saying that the thought story of a result isn't present ?

Yes totally. But then how else would it be communicated if not through story? Everything has to become conceptual to be expressed.

"LOOKing", what is that ?
Is it something that Benny DOES ?

Well, it appears to be. A decision is made to look, and then one LOOKS, at least that is how it appears. Present moment awareness happens, and that includes awareness of thoughts and stories. Receptivity.

Is there a process involved ?

Well it just happens, by it's own accord. Thoughts may create a story that 'I looked', but either way looking happens.

If some'thing' is SEEn, can it be unSEEN ?

Huh, well I don't think so, but it might not be possible to bring it to mind so to speak.

What is forgetting ?

Forgetting is when a memory (thought) is not present. Forgetting is a story that 'I' can't find the other story.

What is re-mind-ing ?

Hmm, the missing link in story mode. When a thought returns to mind.

love

Benny