I am Looking for a Guide.

[Violet]

I'm replying in fragments because I'm on my phone and it is very difficult to quote and cut/paste.

Everything is automatic. It is habitual for me to think "I" make things happen so it confuses me to feel things happen and know I am not making them happen.

It is so obvious that I am not present but it is very unexpected and confusing and I seem to feel it and then I don't.

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

I went for a walk today and noticed that I was moving and "me" thinking about moving is all a beat behind what actually happens. My thinking is behind the act itself.

You got it. Spot on. That's just what happens.

The tension in my eyes is, I think, my thoughts trying to construct a physical self from something. As if sensation is a self. When I let go of the habitual tension in my eyes, all that is happening is seeing.
I see that the desire to exist as a self is just a thought.
I feel dreamy and odd going through this process. I am not my thoughts. My thoughts think that perhaps behind thoughts are faster thoughts that make up "me". When I examine that, it's not true but my thoughts cling to the idea that they make up me.

Nice observations. It's really good that you've become so aware of the role that thoughts, specifically I-thoughts, try to play as this exploration proceeds and you see more and more clearly the absence of any separate self. There's nothing wrong with thoughts, so long as we see them for what they are. They are part of life, part of living, but they aren't real in the sense that they are simply conceptual distillations of past experiences (immediate, recent and distant) suffused with selfish desires, opinions, judgements etc. Best taken with an enormous pinch of salt! We can either believe these, entailing and relying on yet more thoughts, or see them for what they and have faith in our direct experience of what's happening in this moment. After all, there's nothing else is there?

So, let's look at thoughts:

Where do thoughts come from?

Are you in control of them?

Can you stop a thought from coming?

Can you stop it in the middle?

Do you know what the next thought will be?

Is "I" a different thought from the thought of say, a table?

Can a thought think?

There's no rush, so take your time and examine all of this closely. First, just sit quietly and let your mind become quieter and more still, then wait for thoughts to come and see what you notice.

I think you're doing really well Violet.

Pete x

[Violet]

Where do thoughts come from?

Are you in control of them?

Can you stop a thought from coming?

Can you stop it in the middle?

Do you know what the next thought will be?

Is "I" a different thought from the thought of say, a table?

Can a thought think?

I don't know where thoughts come from. There isn't a "me" making them.

I am not in control of them.

I definitely can't stop a thought from coming.

I have no control at all over my thoughts so I can't stop one in the middle.

I have no idea what my next thought will be.

I'm not sure what this question means really. I can touch and feel a table but the thought of a table is no more real than the thought of "I".

No a thought can't think.

I am really enjoying this process, thank you.

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

I don't know where thoughts come from. There isn't a "me" making them.
I am not in control of them.
I definitely can't stop a thought from coming.
I have no control at all over my thoughts so I can't stop one in the middle.
I have no idea what my next thought will be.
I'm not sure what this question means really. I can touch and feel a table but the thought of a table is no more real than the thought of "I".
No a thought can't think

All good. You can clearly see that there's no 'you' thinking, just thinking.

So, let's now move on to deciding/choosing. Try this exercise:

Raise your right arm (or don’t). In that process of raising the right arm (or not), a decision is made, or at least something happens (or doesn’t). But can you pinpoint the actual moment of choice and find the actual entity that appears to be making that choice? In direct experience, can that moment of choice, that apparent chooser, actually be found? Or does the idea 'I just chose to (not) raise my right arm' come after the event itself?

Also, can I ask you to have a look at the following short video clip from BBC Horizon - The Secret You on Neuroscience and Freewill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3AiOS4nCE . It demonstrates scientifically that our decisions and choices are made a full 6 seconds before we think we make them, i.e. before a thought arises saying, "I decided to do this." There is no substitute for looking in direct experience, but this is excellent scientific corroboration for what is to be found, or rather not found, in direct experience.

I am really enjoying this process, thank you.

That's good to hear, I'm really pleased!

Lots of love,

Pete

[Violet]

Pete I am sorry I will have to reply to you tomorrow. So far I feel that everything happens automatically but I will observe it more closely tomorrow and watch the video. I have 21 month old twins and fell asleep putting them to bed. They are a wonderful example of life just being life and also how we learn to label the world to understand it, but looking after them doesn't always leave me a lot of time to write here. x

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

No problem, you must do what you have to. Just get back to me when you can. I like the way you've been able to keep observing under pressure!

Looking forward to hearing from you later on today.

Lots of love, Pete

[Violet]

That film is fascinating.

I can't find a point where "I" decide anything about my body. Things just happen. The sense of a me deciding things isn't real. In fact, when I try very hard to locate "I" I find that it consists of the sensation of me putting my hand on my chest and muscle tension in my eyes. Strange that something I've taken as a given for so many years should be so ephemeral! x

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

I can't find a point where "I" decide anything about my body. Things just happen. The sense of a me deciding things isn't real. In fact, when I try very hard to locate "I" I find that it consists of the sensation of me putting my hand on my chest and muscle tension in my eyes. Strange that something I've taken as a given for so many years should be so ephemeral! x

That's great Violet; you're clearly 'getting it'!

Not really many areas left to look at. Let's look at the body.

Does the body experience sensations and thought?
or
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinaesthetic)?

P x

[Violet]

Does the body experience sensations and thought?
or
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinaesthetic)?

I am finding it a bit difficult at the moment to "think" about things. I don't think I fully understand these questions, I'll do my best with them.

I see my body, parts of it at least. I feel my fingers touching the screen in front of me, but if I close my eyes my body disappears and all there is is sensation. Somewhere out in space I feel a sensation and I have learnt, this feeling is in my fingers, my fingers are part of me, but really it is just feeling. That means to me that body is another concept like "I". It is a helpful label but nothing more.

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

I see my body, parts of it at least. I feel my fingers touching the screen in front of me, but if I close my eyes my body disappears and all there is is sensation. Somewhere out in space I feel a sensation and I have learnt, this feeling is in my fingers, my fingers are part of me, but really it is just feeling. That means to me that body is another concept like "I". It is a helpful label but nothing more.

I'm pleased that you see that in direct experience there are sensations, there is feeling, but no 'body'; that's just in thought, a concept, useful in 'everyday life, but no more than that.

I reckon now's the right time to ask you some sweep-up questions to see where you're at.

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

There's quite a bit here but the answers can be brief unless, of course, there's something you want to examine some more. Basically, we just need to tidy up and identify anything that needs to be looked into a bit more deeply, or clarified. And don't worry, no rush, take your time.

Love, Pete

[Violet]

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

I can't find a self that experiences. Experiences are felt, they happen but there isn't a "me" doing the feeling.

The lack of control is very clear. Life happens automatically.

Decisions happen but there isn't a me who makes them.

Thoughts arise. There isn't a controller of thinking.

The body is a helpful label. I feel very sad writing this. It feels so strange to let go of the solidity of the idea of body, like I'm just molecules collected together for a brief moment, they'll blow away, life will go on elsewhere. It's painful to feel that.

The five senses are not controlled by an I. It's very clear to me that there is no control of the senses.

There is no self that is separate. There is no me as such. I do feel very unhappy writing this. I guess I'm sad to be losing the illusion of separateness from others. I am just life.

I don't feel doubt that I am just life, I feel it but I think part of me isn't very pleased to feel it.

Thank you Pete for your help with this process.

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

Great answers. It's clear to me that you've clearly seen that there is no separate self and that there never has been. I reckon you're ready for the final questions.

There is no self that is separate. There is no me as such. I do feel very unhappy writing this. I guess I'm sad to be losing the illusion of separateness from others. I am just life.

It can feel sad at first, I remember that it did for me, but please just bear in mind that there never was a you anyway, just thoughts saying that there was. So nothing has changed in that way. There's no you to be sad, just feelings of sadness arising and subsiding, and thoughts saying, 'I'm sad'. Also, you no longer have the need to devote your energies to protecting, maintaining and nurturing this non-existent entity. This freedom of just being life, living, is real and lasting, unlike the sadness that comes, fades and eventually disappears.

I'm really pleased that you've seen through the self illusion and happy to have been able to point out to you where to look. You did all the rest!

So here are the final questions. Once I get your answers, I'll put them forward for other guides for any comments. Then I'll arrange for you to get access to various aftercare and other groups on Facebook and the LU site. Have you got a Facebook name? If so, either let me know here or, if you prefer, PM it to me.

Always from direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything

6) Anything to add?

Pete x

Ps I'll be around as usual to receive and send posts until late tomorrow (Friday) evening, then away and probably out of internet contact just for Saturday and Sunday, then back in action Monday morning. We can work round that, either tying up any loose ends before I go, or doing that when I get back.

[Violet]

Always from direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything

6) Anything to add?

1. There isn't a separate self. No, there never was one.

2. It's useful to label things. I do it every day for my 21 month old twins. They point to things and want to know what they are. I am mummy, I am separate from them, they are separate from each other. These ideas help in the world. I feel very comfortable using the language of "I" it is how language is arranged. Nothing has changed that way. It's like being able to swim in the sea. I'm not a fish but I am comfortable in the water.

3. I don't feel any different. Feelings are intense and yet they go quickly. This has been the case for some time. There might be a bit more freshness in the way I am. Understanding sensation has been powerful.

4. I think it has been a gentle process that has just quietly happened. I don't think there was a particular pushed over moment.

5. I don't make anything happen. Everything that is, arises.

6. Thank you. I really appreciate your help and this website. x

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

Many thanks for your clear and straightforward answers. I've forward them to the guides. It's quite common for them to put forward questions or points for absolute clarification. I'll forward anything from them as soon as I receive it.

Lots of love,

Pete

[moondog]

Hi Violet,

Could you answer question 2 in more detail please, dealing with each part of the question in some detail.

Sorry question 5 was cut off, it should read: 5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Can you answer the missing bits please.

One of the guides refers to your phrase "I am mummy, I am separate from them, they are separate from each other." And wants to know, 'Is this 'her' perception? Please clarify.

The guide also says, 'She writes, "I do feel very unhappy writing this. I guess I'm sad to be losing the illusion of separateness from others." I think the guide is concerned that you are finding this a negative experience even though seeing through self involves by its very nature realising that you are one with life which should be positive and uplifting rather than sad. I've already commented on all of this to you but it would be helpful if you could say a bit more, for the guide's benefit, about how you now feel.

Pete X