I would love to be guided

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:02 pm

Thanks for the update Alastair,

You're doing well, looking forward to your responses.

Paulo.

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Alastair
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Alastair » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:17 pm

Hi Paulo,

I feel I need to take a step back in this process.
There was a significant spiritual opening; central identity shifted from the 'self' to the Ground of Awareness, to life living seamlessly as a whole. The mind-body relaxed deeply to an unparalleled ease of being.
After approximately two days the 'I' stepped in to take ownership of this experience. The ego seems to be back with avengeance fighting with what is happening in each moment.
I need to be 100% honest with myself. I want to continue to examine the truth, and not be tricked by a grasping mind.
Right now it feels like I still believe in a separate 'I' or self.

Further guidance would be much appreciated.

With thanks,
Alastair

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:16 pm

Thanks Alastair,

And yes, being honest in your inquiry is a sure way to success in this process. After all, there’s really no ‘faking it’ in life. Let’s continue guidance for the moment,
Right now it feels like I still believe in a separate 'I' or self.
If you believed you’d won a million dollar lottery would you spend all your savings and put a deposit on a luxury sports car, or would you check your ticket with the lottery company first?

If you believed there was a monster hiding under your bed would you jump out the window to get away from it, or would you look under the bed first?

What we do here is check our beliefs by ‘looking’ at what actually is in direct experience, and rely on our own experience, rather than what we have been told.

Look at that belief in a separate self – what is this ‘self’ in direct experience?
[Remember, direct experience consists of thoughts, feelings, physical sensations, and an awareness of these experiences in the moment]
There was a significant spiritual opening; central identity shifted from the 'self' to the Ground of Awareness, to life living seamlessly as a whole. The mind-body relaxed deeply to an unparalleled ease of being.
Observe the ‘jargon’ in the story above – ‘spiritual opening’, ‘central identity’, ‘Ground of Awareness’. These seem like thought structures rather than a description of something happening in direct experience. Reality is something so simple, all happening in the now - It is heart beating, breath breathing, sounds heard, feelings felt. All else occurs ‘in’ thought and is illusion, remember, thoughts are real but the content is not – look at the previous ‘jump exercise’ to test that for yourself.

What ACTUALLY happened? What’s ACTUALLY happening?
I feel I need to take a step back in this process.
Jump in, the water’s fine :)

Paulo.

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Alastair
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Alastair » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:52 pm

Hi Paulo,

I’m looking and inquiring into my experience moment to moment. Funnily enough, I can’t find any ‘I’ when I go looking for it. Thoughts and feelings popping up and another thought – ‘Is there an ‘I’ thinking that thought, or feeling that feeling?’ – and the answer comes back as no, its just thinking spontaneously arising out of the stimulation of the moment. There is no ‘I’ there when I go looking for it.

When there is no active inquiry, the ‘I’ thinking babbles on in an incessant manner, claiming ownership of loads of things. Looking and sensing of the environment shrinks to a more internal focus.
Is there a difference between there being no ‘I’ when examined, and the thinking/sensations going on when thinking rabbits on, with numerous references to ‘I’, ‘me’ sprinkled in on auto-pilot? I’ll examine this further.

I’ll write more tomorrow.

Thanks,

Alastair.

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:38 pm

Hi Alastair, thanks for your message, and for continuing with the inquiry,
When there is no active inquiry, the ‘I’ thinking babbles on in an incessant manner, claiming ownership of loads of things. Looking and sensing of the environment shrinks to a more internal focus.
In my experience what we focus on becomes our reality. When there is active inquiry, the focus is on direct experience, and what we see is close to reality. When the focus is 'internal', i.e. 'in' thought, then we are one step removed from reality, and can end up in all kinds of trouble.

Consider if the 'I' thought, like all thoughts, is just being triggered by certain sensations and scenarios where there was previously an 'I' associated with those sensations and scenarios.

An analogy might help to illustrate this - a smoker may feel the urge to have a cigarette after a meal, or a drink, or upon seeing an ashtray or someone else smoking. This urge, this thought to smoke, appears automatically in awareness, triggered by a stimulus - there's no thinking or planning behind it, it's almost mechanical in nature.

Look and see if this 'I' thought is being triggered by stimulii (sensations and other thoughts). Watch it happen, allow it to happen, just allow that thought to be there. Then notice if it fades away.

You must remember that the belief in an 'I' is a habit of many years, it may not disappear right away, but keep looking and my experience has been that this habit, like any other, will subside.

Paulo.

[If you find your experience is being flooded with babbling thoughts try this little trick to get you back to direct experience -

1. Focus on the sound of your breathing. Breathing is happening in the here and now, and focusing on the sound of the breath will help connect you to the here and now.

2. Allow your previous thoughts to fade. No matter how seemingly important a thought was, let it fade. This is very important, disconnect.

3. Look at your babbling thoughts, and ask if they relate to the here and now. For example, you may be sitting on a bus on the way home having an arguement with the boss in your thoughts. Looking around at the other people in the bus and not finding your boss anywhere in direct experience will reinforce the illusiory nature of your babbling thoughts.

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Alastair
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Alastair » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:23 pm

Hi Paulo,
Consider if the 'I' thought, like all thoughts, is just being triggered by certain sensations and scenarios where there was previously an 'I' associated with those sensations and scenarios.
Yes, I noticed thinking and sensations looping around feeling a little anxiety and worrying about starting a new job tomorrow. Anxiety feelings have a history of the 'I' coming forward and really attempting to manage them.Feelings and sensations recognised and labelled as unpleasant often trigger a definite ‘I’ thought, attempting to manage and control, and suppress the feelings.
Look and see if this 'I' thought is being triggered by stimulii (sensations and other thoughts). Watch it happen, allow it to happen, just allow that thought to be there. Then notice if it fades away.
When I got back home, I stopped and closed my eyes for a while. This withdrawing and looking inwards automatically settles the grasping and controlling ‘I’ and everything relaxes down.
Further inquiry into ongoing feelings lead to the realisation of the thought of tomorrow only happening right in each moment now. The content of the thinking seemed less real. As Sailor ‘Bob’ says, ‘what’s wrong with right now, unless you think about it?’

Thanks for pointing me back to looking at direct experience again,

Alastair.

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:14 pm

Nicely done Alastair, you seem to be back on track once more,
Anxiety feelings have a history of the 'I' coming forward and really attempting to manage them.Feelings and sensations recognised and labelled as unpleasant often trigger a definite ‘I’ thought, attempting to manage and control, and suppress the feelings.
Sure, can you see how sensible it would be for the 'mind/body' to bring in a controlling character when it feels it's in danger. Very useful for avoiding real dangers, but you may recall from the 'jump exercise' that the mind cannot distinguish between real or vividly imagined dangers, and so it reacts 'as if' those feelings and sensations relate to something in direct experience.

Part three of the 'emergency exercise' above, i.e. - ask if the thought you're having relates to anything in the here and now, will give feedback to the 'mind/body' as to whether those feelings relate to anything real. But don't take my word for it - check out that technique next time the mind/body is getting into a flap over something in imagination. Share what you expeience if you wish.
Further inquiry into ongoing feelings lead to the realisation of the thought of tomorrow only happening right in each moment now. The content of the thinking seemed less real.
Bravo, now you're getting into the swing of things! Just know that you don't have to take time out to do this inquiry, do it anywhere, anytime. And because those thoughts are happening in the here and now, you can catch them right away, before they have a chance to grow out of control.
As Sailor ‘Bob’ says, ‘what’s wrong with right now, unless you think about it?’
With all due respect to Sailor Bob, I'm far more interested in what Alastair has to say. Remember - question all your beliefs, and don't take anything anyone else says for granted - rely on your own direct experience only.

So, today I'd like you to tell me about your experience of the here and now - write out a little 'lecture' for me, tell me all about it based on your direct experience only - and make it plain and simple, so that a five year old could understand it.

I think you'll enjoy that one, Paulo :)

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Alastair
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Alastair » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:20 pm

Hi Paulo,
I'm far more interested in what Alastair has to say
Same here... :-) Thanks for honouring my expression.
tell me about your experience of the here and now
Here's my experience recorded on a voice memo -

I can feel my left hand, scratching my right elbow, some thoughts, some thinking going through my head, I can hear a noise in the distance, taking a deep breath, hear cars going past, I notice the tablet turning itself off, … God, I just notice complete stillness, … silence, … inside the body/mind, ……. no thinking, …. space, …. really looking, ….. deep sigh, … just looking, …. no ‘I’ looking

What a lovely experiencing process. It’s a beautiful silence without the ‘I’, just looking, listening and sensing.

Thanks for all your time spent guiding so far,

Alastair.

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:03 pm

Wonderful Alastair, thanks for sharing those observations,

However, (and you know by know I'm a devil for detail), there are a lot of 'I' and 'my' labels in there. So, here's something to try with that same basic approach -

Carry out that same observation of what's happening in the moment. This time without an 'I' or 'my'. For example, instead of saying 'I can feel my left hand', simply say something like 'there is experience of a left hand', or 'there is awareness of a left hand', or 'sensations can be felt in the left hand of the body'. You'll know best how to phrase it.

Then ask yourself - was the 'I' label necessesary at all, or does all life exist without the need for an 'I'?

Keep up the good work, Paulo.

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Alastair
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Alastair » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:29 pm

Hi Paulo,

I started into the direct experiencing process, using terms like looking, sensing, hearing, feeling etc. I immediately noticed when I used the ‘my’ term and rapid reflex of thoughts berating myself for doing the exercise ‘incorrectly’. ‘I’m no good; I’m useless’ etc. Automatic spinning into memory. Seconds later, observation continued by listening to sounds, looking and sensing. Deep sighs and yawning!
I have to admit, there felt like an ‘I’ overseeing this exercise in its earlier stage in order to ‘correct’ any mistakes. Previously, the exercise started by using the ‘I’ expression, and naturally moved to simple looking and listening.
Then ask yourself - was the 'I' label necessesary at all
I did this observing of direct experience earlier in the day and the distinct impression was of having no need of the ‘I’ at all. All simply happening, moment to moment, without need of any reference point.
or does all life exist without the need for an 'I'?
I don't know this one for sure. I'll have a look at that.

Thanks,

Alastair.

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:00 pm

Hi Alastair,
I started into the direct experiencing process, using terms like looking, sensing, hearing, feeling etc. I immediately noticed when I used the ‘my’ term and rapid reflex of thoughts berating myself for doing the exercise ‘incorrectly’. ‘I’m no good; I’m useless’ etc. Automatic spinning into memory. Seconds later, observation continued by listening to sounds, looking and sensing. Deep sighs and yawning!
Can you see that these 'berating thoughts' were also part of the experience, and just came and went. They have no substance if you look at them directly and closely. It would be wonderful as a reinforcing exercise if you could write out expicity everything that happens over the period of a short observation, and report it here (without the 'I' of course).
I have to admit, there felt like an ‘I’ overseeing this exercise in its earlier stage in order to ‘correct’ any mistakes.
Look directly and deeply at that - what is this 'I' in direct experience?

Paulo.

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Alastair
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Alastair » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:21 pm

Hi Paulo,

I'm back, or just back, as the case may be.

Here goes, good luck, :-)
Direct observation exercise ...

Feeling the left knee, sore, looking at the body in front of me, feeling the right arm pressing against the right side of the chair, noticing the green carpet in the room, eh, noticed the quick 'my' first and then snapping to just 'the room', that's a thought in itself, just thinking, leaves flickering outside the window, cars whooshing past, notice the wind blowing the ivy, the breathing, thinking to myself, 'What's that word I'm looking for', tension, sensation of tension in the breathing, looking out into the distance, the sky, the white clouds, feel my eyes a bit sore, the car and the exhaust making a noise outside, the rumble in the stomach, the light fading in my tablet, about to turn itself off, feel the bottom part of my left leg, on top of my right leg, sensation there, twitching of my fingers,
... ‘my’ fingers or just fingers, twitching of fingers, pen, blue iridescent colour, olive green coloured notebook,
... looking.....silence....just seeing...sensing the stomach
.........the use of 'my' is just a habit, in fact it is just sensing, looking, no need to have the 'my'
........ sensation in the brain, feeling sensation in the left hand, pressed between my legs, cars moving, I can hear cars moving, slight tension because I realised I used the 'I' word, just thinking, feeling sensation in the right elbow, tight and sore, hearing cars whooshing past, ....... sounded like a saw working in the background somewhere, OK

Here's the experience broken down into smaller steps -
Sensing, looking, listening, thinking
‘I’ and ‘my’ thoughts stimulating other thoughts
‘My’ not needed, just a habit
Tensing sensation when habit of ‘I’ pops in to take ownership

Reviewing this exercise at this moment, I notice continuation of stressful 'I' thoughts, twisting to 'do' something to 'my' present sensations. Beginning to look now at this, makes it clearer that these 'I' thoughts are just thoughts, squirming, which are now calming down.

The habit of 'I' slips back in after periods of direct observation.

Thanks,

Alastair.

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:37 pm

Thanks Alastair, a very thorough job as always, well done,
Reviewing this exercise at this moment, I notice continuation of stressful 'I' thoughts, twisting to 'do' something to 'my' present sensations. Beginning to look now at this, makes it clearer that these 'I' thoughts are just thoughts, squirming, which are now calming down.
Good, you can see now that 'I' is indeed just a thought, and will fade away after some time, just like all other thoughts. It has no substance of it's own, and is just a thought as you say. My expeience has been that when we look directly at those thoughts, i.e. in direct experience, the 'I' is just not there, yet when we are 'in' thought the 'I' appears to be real.
The habit of 'I' slips back in after periods of direct observation.
It's not such big issue if there are 'I' thoughts there, afterall our imaginations are very useful for planning the future, or acting out scenarios with an 'I' character in there. The important thing to see is that the 'I' in those imaginary scenarios is just as imaginary as the scenario itself, and there is really no seperate 'I' in reality. That's the real habit that will fade with time (i.e.: regarding the imaginery character called 'self' as a real entity with it's own seperate existence).

Alastair, now that you are back on track and progressing well with your enquiry we'll dive straight into some nice juicy questions -

We've looked at 'time' previously in our dialogue, so from you current perspective -

Is there anything that exists outside the present moment?

We've also looked at 'direct experience', again from your current perspective -

Is there anything that exists outside direct experience?

Keep up the good work, Paulo.

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Alastair
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Alastair » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:10 pm

Hi Paulo,
Is there anything that exists outside the present moment?
No, absolutely nothing. Everything courses through the present moment. I find thinking happening and sensations and emotions, even the ‘I’ thought, but it’s all happening in the present moment, and the ‘I’ thought is just seen as contents of thought; thinking is real, but the content is not, there is no controller, there is no ‘I’ separate from this flow in the present moment.
Is there anything that exists outside direct experience?
Again, there is absolutely nothing that exists outside direct experience. Awareness, noticing sensations, thinking, looking, listening, body moving, heart beating, the body breathing, thinking, emotions in response to thoughts, even sensation of constriction of the ‘I’ thought attempting to control the present moment. It in itself is also just present, just now in direct experience, as simply thinking or sensations or emotions.

Thanks again,

Alastair.

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Paulo
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Re: I would love to be guided

Postby Paulo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:08 pm

Great response as always Alastair,

I know this may seem a little repetitious, based on your detailed response above, but it has to be asked -

From where you are now, have you seen through the illusion of self?

Paulo.


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