Hi Ilona,
Nice. You are getting close.
Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement!
Lets dig around the thinker for a bit.
What does a thinker do?
Aside from getting on my nerves, what does the thinker do? If a thinker, ‘I’, were to exist that would mean I would be somewhere in time and space. Where is space? I am nowhere to be found in space and time, and space cannot be found – because it isn’t there.
Maybe it’s the other way around. Like the ‘seeing’ is the ‘seen’. The ‘thought’ is assumed to have being deliberately ‘thought up’. But that makes no sense.
Something is very wrong in how I am looking – it’s like I look but I don’t see.
A thought implies the existence of a ‘thinker’, someone, if the origin of the thought itself exists – and that would have to be someone. But there can be no someone because there is no space (literally).
Ok, only if the origin of the thought lies in existence can there be a thinker. Where else can the origin be other than in existence, i.e., space and time – which don’t exist anyway.
Looking for the ‘thinker’ won’t work because that ‘looking’ can only be for something that exists in time-space. I could say, looking for a non-physical thinker but that can only ever be a thought and as you point out: That which doesn’t exist neither appears nor disappears.
There is a seeking for a proof I exist. As Darth Vader says; Search your feelings you know this to be true. And here we go: That is a thought I am seeing. But there’s no me to see it. (thought). There is no space, so there is no separation, so there is no me or you, so there is nothing-ness just being – dreaming. (Nice thought, quite poetic).
Ok. What is the relationship ‘I am typing on the computer’? First thought I see is ‘intention’, followed by the idea I’ve thought what I’m going to type (which I haven’t) it’s just flowing. Next thought is the keyboard, then the hands, then the arms, then the torso, head, eyes, legs…. The chair, the room, the garden outside and fresh air coming in….. all thoughts.
What can a thought do?
Thoughts don’t do anything, they’re a bit like televisions, they give the appearance of doing something through their stories. Just a thought. :)
Can a thought think?
No. Thinking is happening, the idea of a thinker is happening.
I wonder, the experience of thinking happens, the idea of a thinker is thought, the sensation of being some body happens, the sensation of experiencing as a body and the world happens, and so on. For there to be a ‘thinker’, Lol!, there has to be someone who knows what the next thought will be.
Ilona, I think I’ve discovered why I can’t find the ‘gateless gate’, I’m looking for it. :)
Without the thought of existence how can there be existence. (thought, thought, thought…)
Thinking is another way to sense life, another way for life to sense itself.
Do thoughts make sense? I’ve always assumed they have. Seeing makes sense because it is seeing. Thoughts – I don’t exist; I believe myself to be a sensible and responsible person?. 1 + 1 = 2, that makes sense because I can see it. Try to explain it? Not a hope. But is a kind of freedom. If I can’t explain what I can see, how can I possibly explain what I can’t see. Ah I see… there is seeing or there is not, ‘thinking’ can make no sense of this, that’s just thoughts of thinking thoughts.
Try this experiment.
Focus for a bit on each sense. Take 2-3 min to notice just one channel of perception. A fruit can be used, or something like that.
Before starting the experiment imagine, that you have total amnesia and this is something you are experiencing for the first time. Then see what you notice with 6 senses including the mind/thinking sense. When focusing on a perception channel ignore for a bit the others and immerse fully into experience. Go through each one- with eyes closed and eyes open. Experience that fruit in all possible ways.
For some reason I find this a very difficult experience. I seem to always be doing it wrong – I know there is really no right or wrong way – but I’m uncertain if I am doing it ‘right’.
The avocado has a rippled texture, smooth, some coarseness. It is heavy and quite hard indicating it is not yet ripe. Without my eyes open I would never spot it as an avocado. It has a rich deep green rippled surface with some brown blemishes and is not too small.
With my eyes open, it is a real avocado, I could open it and eat it. But it wouldn’t be tasty because it’s not ripe. When my eyes are closed, it’s still real, but it’s not and avocado, it’s an object with properties and I can’t see if it’s edible or not. It has no scent really, or the slight sent of wax, from being in supermarket storage. The wax is a sort of neutral perfume.
Gently biting into the skin, the taste is interesting, it’s cool, resistant to my teeth, I can taste the green-ness of it if I’m looking at it.
What the object ‘actually’ is really depends on perception. It could be a heavy, misshapen, wrinkly, solid ball, or an avocado by touch alone. In a way, if the senses don’t agree, it is not seen as real.
Whichever sense comes first, it doesn’t matter, seeing or touching the avocado brings it from being imaginary to life. Put it down and close my eyes it becomes an idea again.
I have a very strong feeling, thoughts don’t make any sense at all – which is why they are thoughts?
Love and thanks for now
Nino
