Lost soul seeks guide!

[Ilona]

Really close now.
Look here- does there need to be an I for seeking to be happening? Is it not on automatic? Was there ever an I to do the seeking?

Oh, and no, Big Bang is not part of the package, don't wait for fireworks and shiny insight, sometimes the drop of belief happens unnoticed, and can only be seen that it happened when looking back.
You won't be experiencing flashing lights or angelic choir in the moment when belief drops. It may have dropped already, just taking some time to accept that.


Much love

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

Look here - does there need to be an I for seeking to be happening? Is it not on automatic? Was there ever an I to do the seeking?

I never even considered that. And now that I see, no ‘I’ is necessary for seeking to be happening. The insights do keep continuing – something like everything being the same experience. Still, frustration makes me think I am – if that makes any sense.

So ‘doing’ is ‘happening’. I watched the clouds today and wondered; are the clouds doing moving? Aren’t I and the clouds the very same experience? Then a bee decided to come too close for comfort, waving it away happened, the I ‘heard’ something say ‘I waved the bee away because it came too close’. That’s actually a lie! It all happened and a story spontaneously emerged as thought.

It seems I have a question to ask, of profound importance, but it doesn’t come. The question won’t come because there is nothing for me to question? The mind can’t understand because that’s another thought anyway. A thought clearly can’t understand another thought. Therefore I cannot understand anything at all – ‘I’ being a thought.

So, I can never see, and there is nothing I can do about it because ‘doing’ is happening as the same experience ‘I’ appears as. More than anything I can’t tell if I’m over emphasizing thought here. Maybe it’s all part of a burn out process.

Oh, and no, Big Bang is not part of the package, don't wait for fireworks and shiny insight, sometimes the drop of belief happens unnoticed, and can only be seen that it happened when looking back.
You won't be experiencing flashing lights or angelic choir in the moment when belief drops. It may have dropped already, just taking some time to accept that.

I don’t even get embarrassed at what I believed awakening to be until recently. I now believe it is seeing through the illusion of being a separate individual, but that is just a belief. Until I see what you are helping me to see - | really can’t know. At a guess… actually no idea any longer.

It’s really helped me to put this down in writing as it always does.
Love and thanks
Nino

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

The self-enquiry seems to have stopped, I am simply unable to think of any more questions. Actually the reason it stopped is because (it just dawned on me); there was no self-enquiry, it was all I-enquiry. I look forward to self-enquiry!

Deeper flashes of insight do happen regularly – they tend to arrive as feint disappearing memories but are always ‘everything being one synchronous experience'. Also this was the second night my dreams where all about ‘no-I’, though I really don’t remember anything else about them.

The thought ‘become free of calling Life ‘I’’ came just as I started writing this. And it does have a bit of the Longshanks about it. I notice from reading through the forum, THE common thread, once the belief ‘I am’ is questioned it sooner or later ceases being. Also until it ceases to be it seems to ‘operate’ at full strength.

Odd, I originally started the letter by saying the Self-enquiry seems to have stopped and suddenly realised, there never was any Self-enquiry happening in the first place. As I wrote it became increasingly apparent it was all I-enquiry. That’s much easier to grasp – my life, my life, my life. And since there is no ‘I’ there can’t be a my-life, so the idea of ‘freeing Self from calling Life ‘I’’ points to an interesting form of self-protection.

It is very clear, because I thought of Life/Self/'not even one' as ‘I’ and associated ‘I’ with the body/mind and ultimately death – protecting Self became of unequalled importance. It’s actually kinda funny now.
I’ve asked myself for so many years; when will it all become worth the effort. I.e. when will I come to appreciate my experience. I mean really appreciate it, really feel it. Nice words are totally irrelevant here.

Self-enquiry, I wonder if that’s possible. I-enquiry, gone, nada, zilch.

Ah. What to I call awakening? Appreciating Life. Something 'I' cannot do.

You keep inspiring me even with encouragement alone!

Love and thanks
Nino

[Ilona]

Sweet!
Glad to hear the I inquiry has stopped. Can you say that it's absolutely clear, the separate I is an illusion?

What is that you are calling Self? What other words could be used instead?

Much love!

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

Glad to hear the I inquiry has stopped. Can you say that it's absolutely clear, the separate I is an illusion?

What I can see is the ‘I’ is an illusion. I-enquiry was always the building block for that illusion; Who am I? How can I make my life better? I can improve my quality of life. And so on. The illusion is still dominant and still presents itself as my-reality. There is growing recognition of this being an illusion, kind of like a storm building in intensity, but still no idea of what lies behind it.

What is that you are calling Self? What other words could be used instead?

There isn’t anything I can claim to be myself any longer. I like very much Robert Wolfe’s expression, ‘there is not even one’ because this simply points to absolutely nothing. So I’ve really run out of things to call my-self.

Love and thanks
Nino

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

More rambelings!

‘Thought’ no matter how complex is self-referencing. Focusing on this, what I am writing, I can see, all ‘my’ thoughts are the subject my attention is focused on. It is absolute. It is also incredibly clever. The thought ‘I’ is obviously not real, but the sensation, like the watermelon, continuously draws thoughts about I effortlessly giving it the appearance of ‘reality’.

It is really nice to see, and get beyond the constant philosophising. My constant search was actually about ‘truth’ for want of a better word. This simply attracted a multitude of thoughts about ‘truth’ at the expense of seeing it. So nicely I am beginning to see through the belief ‘I am’. Goodbye belief.

With that insight I can clearly see, virtually all thought happening right now is about me, Nino. It gets a little dull. Thinking about myself all the time is hardly fascinating and I am missing direct experience while doing this because it is soaking up all my attention. If that sounds strange, it’s because it is.

Self-referencing thought of Nino powered by belief in ‘it’ = sensation together with matching thoughts and appears as reality. Wow. This is all ‘seeing’. Still it’s very strong. Still more to go.

Love and REAL APPRECIATION
Nino

[Ilona]

With that insight I can clearly see, virtually all thought happening right now is about me, Nino. It gets a little dull. Thinking about myself all the time is hardly fascinating and I am missing direct experience while doing this because it is soaking up all my attention. If that sounds strange, it’s because it is.

Nice. Yes, thoughts refer to other thoughts. It's turtles all the way down.

Examine the narration process. Is there a listener? Is voice talking to someone or just talking away? See that as another sense, like seeing, hearing, tasting is experiencing, so is this thinking sense- it's a perception channel too.

What do you notice?


Much love

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

Nice. Yes, thoughts refer to other thoughts. It's turtles all the way down.

It sure does.

Examine the narration process. Is there a listener?

There is really only listening – and the sensation of a listener.

Is voice talking to someone or just talking away?

Well, there is only listening, so in a way it’s just chatter. But somehow it’s more than that, Life-ing?

See that as another sense, like seeing, hearing, tasting is experiencing, so is this thinking sense- it's a perception channel too.
What do you notice?

As the insight first became apparent, I got very excited. I’ve calmed down now and find with unpleasant thoughts it is immediately apparent the more focus I give them the stronger that sensation becomes, and it begins to dissolve immediately. I’m finding it a good idea to keep focusing on uncomfortable/fear based thoughts for this reason. They pass quickly, without a ‘me’ to resist them. I’m finding resistance is just another type of focus. So throughout the day, I just find I’m getting calmer and calmer and getting a better feeling about everything.

The think I most notice is that while there is no ‘me’ to control/choose the thoughts, they are not controlling me because there is no ‘me’ to control. To sum it up, it’s like all problems are seen through almost immediately. I’m inclined to get lost and forget when the thoughts are pleasant.

I notice it’s not knowledge it’s just insight, there’s no real possibility of not seeing now it’s seen. The insight doesn’t have an ‘I’, it just is. I notice the sensation of a separate ‘I’ isn’t absent, it’s just not relevant.

Love and appreciation
Nino

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

This is my second attempt at writing this morning. Every single train of thought has disappeared since I started writing. Thought happen as a meaningful question, ‘I’ am carried away with it, sooner or later it becomes obvious ‘I’ am being led up the garden path and am faced with a choice:

Keep going with it and pretend it’s real, but that’s hard work and ultimately impossible anyway

Or

Let go without challenging it, it’s going to drop away anyway

The incessant questioning of who I am has really stopped. They’re clearly thoughts about self-preservation, and since there isn’t as self anywhere to be found…. So now when they come they go un-challenged.

I suppose, enjoy the experience, since every time I focus on thoughts, they end up being seeing through – and no amount of effort will make it real again.

Oops, looks like I’m running out of things to say now! Except when I re-visited this question from your last post:

Examine the narration process. Is there a listener?

It’s like sound – there’s only that and it’s a sensation. When I try to describe it, it is being heard. So in answer to your question: there is only narration-ness.

Love and appreciation
Nino

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

As the day progresses, unexpected insights are happening.

The sensation of separation creates the sensation of everything imagined as separate. In the same way I believe I am someone, I believe space is something.

I see space is the illusion of separation, a sensation which is always there like a ‘fact’ and I’ve always viewed it as something. Now I’m seeing it doesn’t exist at all. The sensations of me, the computer and table can’t exist without it, and it is not there. So there really can be only one 'thing' so to speak.

So there is experiencing as someone, but no one to do the experiencing. Without physical space, the illusion of separation, there can be no experience of separate-ness. No distinction between me and the computer, neither could exist without the sensation of space.

This is a dramatic turn. Am I thinking or is this seeing? It's not easy to say.

Love and appreciation
Nino

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

Anything I think of as me is an illusion. The belief is of the illusion, so there can be nothing to fear from ‘dropping’ that belief.
Also the process is bogged down in the expectation of some-thing happening whereas dropping the belief itself is all that can really happen.

This is all making sense in a way I cannot describe. The illusion of separation is all around me, space, which in itself is not present but presence. Space also defines everything. I cannot sense space though it is a sensation, a bit like me.

There’s no resistance/fear left at all that I can see. Maybe the belief in the illusion is now playing itself out ‘automatically’. It’s quite hard to say. But there is no real centre any longer. When the ‘I’ happens, I see anything I think of myself as is an illusion, and the belief erodes just a little bit more.

Your patience is wonderful; I have always been a thought nut to crack
Love and appreciation
Nino

PS: I hope I’m not blogging too much!

[Ilona]

Hehe, there is no nut to crack, it's just a story

Good to see that you are writing much and getting clearer, keep writing. Even if I don't answer every post. It's your process, you are the one to answer your own questions.


Yes, is there space? Or that too is a concept?
When you look with eyes, see colours and shapes, is there a colour or shape to the space? Do you experience colour without shape or shape without colour? What do you experience, really?

Is there such sensation of separation? Or just the idea?


Sending love.

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

Hidie the spidie.

Recently a spider moved into our house and became our latest ‘family member’. Last night we named her. Hidie. There has been a very definite relationship building between us for some days now. Hidie likes the bathroom light switched off otherwise she spends a lot more time hiding.
Well you can see, since she got a name she’s also got a personality and a gender. Neither myself nor Helen know how to tell the difference between a male of female spider.

But it’s the start of a new relationship for all of us!

Separation is necessary for a relationship to be able to happen. Or, the appearance of separation is the relationship. You, Me, here, there, each dependant on the other for meaning and purpose. All part of the same story.

A flower can’t be a flower unless it can be seen, without the illusion of separation there is no flower. Without the illusion of the seer and the seen there is neither seer nor seen. In the illusion there is the flower and someone to appreciate it.

There never was a self, only the illusion of self, once the illusion of separation is seen it’s impossible not to conclude, ‘there is simply no self’. I = the illusion as self.

In the illusion there is ‘me’ and ‘the universe’. I experience the universe through this body therefore I am not experienced, except by others. Experience happens to this body, Me. For you experience happens to your body, You.


There is simply no self to refer to. You and Me are part of the illusion. There is the illusion of the seer and the seen. It’s everywhere. If there was no space between you and the computer what would you call that. There would be no you and no computer.

Ilona’s questions arrived here!

Yes, is there space? Or that too is a concept?

There is absolutely nothing, oblivion? Space, the word, is a thought/concept. It is also a sensation, and a very persistent one too. There is nowhere for space to be yet without this sensation there is no direct experience.
But like Santa, there isn’t one in ‘reality’. However experiencing the sensation is real. And if it seems real enough it becomes believed –(light bulb moment here) - if and only if the sensation of being the observer/doer is believed.

But there’s no-one here to believe. There is nowhere for ‘here’ to be. So how did the sensation ‘I’ come about in the first place. It’s no-where and no-thing, so it cannot be explained. Even if it could, the explanation itself only represents the illusion of an answer. Why? Because without separation there is no-one, and it’s all around ‘me’ separation is an illusion. And without any-one there is no relationship.
Ok all this in words is thought. Words/labels = descriptions of sensations.

When you look with eyes, see colours and shapes, is there a colour or shape to the space? Do you experience colour without shape or shape without colour?

I see the illusion of separation seems to create shape, colour, sounds, scents, others, me, and so on. It’s just happening. There is no way to describe a process that doesn’t exist. It cannot possibly be other than what it is.

What do you experience, really?

I don’t think I experience at all. It’s a sudden and strange answer. But I don’t think I do. ‘I am’ is experiencing, ‘I think’ is experiencing. I get that there is experiencing, but I don’t think I experience.

How can I experience if there is no Self? No ‘I’.

Is there such sensation of separation? Or just the idea?

Ok, I must let all this sink in and hopefully I can answer your final question later on.

In appreciation
Nino

[Nino]

Hi Ilona,

Is there such sensation of separation? Or just the idea?

I don’t know. The illusion of separation is clear to see. Which comes first the thought or the sensation? Can it be both? They are both happening. I thought I had the answer to this.

There don’t appear to be answers to anything anymore. Right now I keep ‘seeing’ space everywhere I look – it’s always there, it has to be. Without it there can be nothing. I don’t see visually – even though up to today I never questioned that. Now I keep seeing it’s not there. When I look between things or sounds there’s space and there’s silence. Neither of which exist but which seem to.

When I look into nothing-ness, space, silence, I keep happening, everything keeps happening but at least I can see for a change. The whole concept of doing things seems a bit silly sometimes. I can see at will, and with some ‘effort’ that I am happening, and still the story tells me I am doing things. Typing, thinking, philosophising. But it’s getting harder to accept I’m doing anything after all I’m happening…. It’s all a bit confusing, the idea of choosing a thought doesn’t seem to work at all any longer. The thought is happening with no one to choose, was a choice ever made? Apparently not.

Ultimately questions are illusory, and answers are illusory. Thoughts point to thoughts and as long as I think I can find what I am looking for in them, the looking will keep happening.

Wow, what a way to answer a question!
Love and appreciation
Nino

[Ilona]

Would you say, that you are ready for the final questions?
:)

How does it feel to answer as you answer?

Much love.