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[mark_tywharton]

Is evolutionary enlightenment another great discovery for Helio?

Who, or what are you?

Is there a true self?

Are you clear?

[helio]

Is evolutionary enlightenment another great discovery for Helio?
Good question, but the answer is no. Evolutionary enlightenment is just a way of describing the understanding, and if you understood my explanation, then it is obvious that this creative force is all there IS. Everything is just unfolding.

Who, or what are you?
hahaha... well that is a loaded question. In simple terms, I am just an organism that the force created.

Is there a true self?
If one equates the "true self" to the creative force, then yes. However, the answer is also no, since all there is, IS the creative force, and there is no independent self.

Are you clear?
Clarity is present.

[mark_tywharton]

Okay cool,

You have passed the test!

You may pass through the door of Kukundu...

[mark_tywharton]

Okay, for this forum, there are some questions to help summarise and express the insight and seeing so far.

If you answer them then the thread can be posted to HQ and get verified, then someone will switch you from green to blue. Please answer the questions clearly and concisely. Thanks.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?

Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you for the opportunity of working through this together.

Kind regards.

[helio]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? NO

Was there ever? There was an imagined self, but this of course was not real.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
The illusion of the self is the identification with the body and mind as a separate entity that has control of its actions. As a child, I learn to speak and create a story of my life, based on the meaning given to events. Together, these events and the given meaning, formed the story of "me" and my identity, which I considered "my self."

Describe it fully as you see it now.
Now I see that all there is, is the creative force that continues to flow, and in this flow, there are infinite manifestations, some of which contain phenomenon. One of these phenomena is the sense of awareness, which happens in most organisms, however, even this "awareness" is an illusion and a manifestation of this creative force.

3) How does it feel to see this?
There are sensations that can be labeled peaceful, and unconditional love, however, these are also seen as illusions. The experience is more like watching a 3 D movie, with focus only on the present scene.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Well, the communication here did not happened for a few months, and this realization occurred aside from this communication. Nevertheless, the realization was very similar before I started, except that there was a persistant sense of wanting to equate the creative force as "my self." Now, that sense of "I AM" or the sense of a "Self" is acknowledged as an illusion.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
hahahaha.... well, since there never was a "me" and the force made it all happened, then the force was the last and only bit that manifested this realization.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
If that was the case, that would make me the creator of the universe, so, the answer is no.

Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Everything happens according to the evolution of the creative force, and it is the only thing that makes anything happen. Consequently, everything that happens is a product of this flow, and is happening exactly the way it is supposed to happen, and in perfect harmony to everything else.

6) Anything to add?
Nothing more, nothing less

[mark_tywharton]

One of these phenomena is the sense of awareness, which happens in most organisms, however, even this "awareness" is an illusion and a manifestation of this creative force.

Can you expand on this a little please? Is there a sense of awareness? Or just awareness?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
hahahaha.... well, since there never was a "me" and the force made it all happened, then the force was the last and only bit that manifested this realization.

Okay coolio - how did the experience of that play out?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
If that was the case, that would make me the creator of the universe, so, the answer is no.

Some of the site ops are a little wary of previous activity and want to know that you are a tame bear now ;/)

Are you Helio, Tao of Pooh now? or will they experience Ivan the hairy Russian carpet guy on a path of destruction and retribution?

This should explain it all!

http://youtu.be/eMh_zQgCG9A?t=8m41s

[helio]

One of these phenomena is the sense of awareness, which happens in most organisms, however, even this "awareness" is an illusion and a manifestation of this creative force.

Can you expand on this a little please? Is there a sense of awareness? Or just awareness?

There is a sense of awareness. Just like all the other senses; there is a sense of seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, and tasting. All of these are a product of evolution; a combination of biological variables that produce these senses.

It is a lot like a rainbow; the rainbow is seen, but is it really there and what is it?
As you probably know, when the necessary conditions are present, white light is separated into lightwaves of different intensity when it passes through moisture in the air, and these produce the colors seen. However, while it appears that a rainbow just appears and disappears, it is just a product of the environmental system.

The same is true for awareness; it is a product of the biological system, however in this case, the conditions for the phenomena are stable and constant, as opposed to the conditions for a rainbow, and consequently, awareness seems to always be present. If you would like proof for yourself, then just cut away half of your brain and see what kind of awareness there will be.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
hahahaha.... well, since there never was a "me" and the force made it all happened, then the force was the last and only bit that manifested this realization.

Okay coolio - how did the experience of that play out?

What is a coolio?
The experience just happened. One day I was sitting and it all became clear. Realization just happened.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
If that was the case, that would make me the creator of the universe, so, the answer is no.

Some of the site ops are a little wary of previous activity and want to know that you are a tame bear now ;/)

I don't know what or who the "site ops" are, but tell them not to be wary, since they are not in control of anything, don't really exist, and whatever is going to happen is supposed to happen. As for me being a tame bear, I just finished telling you that "I" do not exists, but if they want to know a prediction of what "my" behavior will be, tell them that I do not know, but based on the current experience, only unconditional love and compassion is present, and being of service is the only sensation. However, chances are that if they preach one thing, but act in the opposite way, it might be pointed out.

Are you Helio, Tao of Pooh now? or will they experience Ivan the hairy Russian carpet guy on a path of destruction and retribution?

This should explain it all!

http://youtu.be/eMh_zQgCG9A?t=8m41s

The video did not seem to provide a clear explanation of what you meant. However, it seems that you are referring to "someone" being worried about "something"... please see the explanation above, and may courage and trust in the universe arise in their experience.

[mark_tywharton]

You have been on this topic for nearly two years Helio.

I declare this work complete and it is clear you have seen through the illusion of self.

Please demonstrate the emotional impact by clarifying some details in the questions and stop trying to be a fucking smart arse.

The idea is for three other sets of eyes to look at your answers and agree that you are complete.

That can happen or not.

Makes no odds really, we're done.

Enjoy it!

[helio]

You are funny Mark,

I was as clear as possible. But obviously not enough. So, what details would you like me to clarify?

[mark_tywharton]

Did you watch the whole Mighty Boosh episode?

Hilarious how it relates to the thread huh!

Glad you enjoyed the humour - you need to enlighten up sometimes and have a good laugh ;/)

Done with the right intention? then no harm done LOL

So to recap?

Expand on this statement a little please.

One of these phenomena is the sense of awareness, which happens in most organisms, however, even this "awareness" is an illusion and a manifestation of this creative force.

Then speak a little more about how the experience of 4) played out.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

And watch out for green hitch hikers with polo peepers :L

Thanks and look forward to the fanfare ;/)

[helio]

I watched most of it, but I did not see the correlation to the thread. But perhaps I will watch it again and see if I can mange to see your sense of humor.

I laugh always, especially at humans that have the desire to control things... now that is funny.

Awareness is a phenomena produced by electrical impulses in the brain. As a result, it is a set of conditions and variables that produce awareness. Like the rainbow example above, the conditions for a rainbow are not constant, however, the conditions that produces awareness is constant while the human is alive. Cut off half of your brain and see what kind of awareness, or even if you have awareness. All the senses are also a phenomena. Take vision for instance; you get visual information, input, and the brain interprets that, depending on the amount of light reflected from the object. While an object might seem green, in reality, the object absorbs the red color and reflect back green, however, depending on the temperature and the density of the object, it might absorb and reflect a different color. So, while your brain interprets the color green, the object is not really green. There other times when the eyes play tricks on you and make you see things where there are none, like a mirage, and it is the same with awareness.

As you can naturally understand, awareness is a phenomena, but the energy that produced the phenomena is permanent, but not awareness.

Regarding the experience, I don't really know what caused it. It was not anything in particular. After we last spoke, i sort of forgot about it. Then months later I was studying for a class, reading about DNA and the function of different cells, then there was this realization and everything came together. The unity of everything was clear, and there was this new wisdom and knowledge that naturally appeared.

As I told you, I had studied religious before, but regarding enlightenment, I did not study anything, nor did I have any sort of training, nor teachers.

So, it just happened, just like everything else...

[mark_tywharton]

Okay thanks

[mark_tywharton]

Okay mate, here's what's happening.
There are a number of Facebook groups which operate in tandem with this forum.
While this conversation is complete, to finish the process, three other red avatars need to confirm your answers in order for you to join those groups.
There isn't much agreement there, if you want to join those groups, then you are going to have to really demonstrate something.
The collective concern is that due to previous behaviour on other groups it might not be appropriate in this case to add you to aftercare FB groups.
Your call.
There seems to have been a huge energy shift there.
If you can demonstrate it, perhaps the Facebook gate can be opened to you ;/)
It has been interesting working with you.
Thank you.
Anurajyati.

[helio]

This is really funny, but not uncommon.

Let me ask you, since it appears that some of these avatars seem to think they have control over what happens, or try to exercise control... have they actually seen through the illusion, and I don't mean just on an intellectual level? A lot of the facebook members claim so many things, but then their actions contradict their claims, and that seems to the the case here, however I hope I am wrong.

Where is the fear coming from?

[mark_tywharton]

Great question.

Obviously it is unanswerable. This could be a huge con? A mind game? Perhaps there is no difference between an intellectual understanding of this mind trick and a visceral one? Science AND non-duality? Same same different?Perhaps the visceral experience of being the impersonal is simply a well aimed stab at manifesting a dissociative identity disorder? You clicked? We control you now? All your minds are belong to us? Maybe the avatars here all have prominent symptoms of various disorders? Anxiety? Bipolar? Depression? OCD? Schizophrenia? Worse still, perhaps we are all on drugs? How would you know? Don't eat the food!

Have they seen through the illusion? No idea?

Have I? No idea ;/) But the outcome here is of being at peace with the world. The outcome here is of noticing there is no longer a desperate need to answer the unanswerable question, or to obtain anything. Life just is the way it is. Whatever is happening now has equal validity as experience to anything else which might be happening. Nothing has changed on the outside. Nothing has changed for the human in this seat. Pain is experienced as unpleasant. Maybe unpleasant is experienced as "oh that's interesting" rather than "oh God look what is happening to me" but that's about it. That would be "my" take on this whole process - all THIS talk for NOTHING - it's REALLY BORING "being enlightened" ;/)

So for Helio:

All that needs to happen here is a demonstration of the experience of seeing through self.

The "Avatars" say they haven't seen a clear enough explanation yet.

I'd like to see is two or three simply written sentences explaining his current experience, free from scientific theories or spiritual titbits he's picked up along the way, that point to a realisation of no self.

Let's make it into a really simple science (not a truth but use this as a metaphor)

There are NO people here - just cause/effect mechanisms running inside human bodies.
These human beings engaged in a language pattern which caused the mechanism to recognise something.
These human beings now operate FROM a new context (way of being).
This way of being has a unique experiential quality.
There has to be a "pattern match" - human beings do this thing called "mirroring" and the actions you take need to be consistent with this pattern.

If it was "playing football" and you were doing "hockey" then it wouldn't look right.

Of course it is entirely possible that some of the FaceBook members kicked the ball a couple of times then went back to hitting it with a stick?

But I don't know them! And even of the handful of them who were here at the start, none are convinced yet.

Have another stab at this question please and let's see where we end up after that.

I'd like to see is two or three simply written sentences explaining his current experience, free from scientific theories or spiritual titbits he's picked up along the way, that point to a realisation of no self.

The real question is however, are you happy with this process? Are we at the end? Are you complete? And if you are... Do you really need access to this and other groups?