Guide needed for Gate excursion

[Paulo]

Great, but that's only a description of a car you imagined. What we're looking at here is HOW that thought appeared.

Let's try with another item -

Think of a dragon.

Share your experience of what happens when you think of the above in as much detail as you can.

How did the thought arrive? Was there a ‘you’ there choosing the particular dragon that appeared in thought, it's colour, size, shape, etc?

How did that particular dragon appear from all the possible dragons that could have appeared?

Paulo.

[Choppy]

Great, but that's only a description of a car you imagined. What we're looking at here is HOW that thought appeared.

Sorry, i understood it as i had to describe the car in as much detail as possible.

Share your experience of what happens when you think of the above in as much detail as you can.

Not that much to comment here, immediately after your sentence was seen an image of a black dragon appeared in my head, it changed shape somewhat and opened its mouth. It very much resembles a dragon from a game that I've previously played.

How did the thought arrive? Was there a ‘you’ there choosing the particular dragon that appeared in thought, it's colour, size, shape, etc?

It came about as an response to what you wrote, it arose effortlessly and every detail of it was already there without anyone choosing anything. I did not pick any detail.

How did that particular dragon appear from all the possible dragons that could have appeared?

As i mentioned it is influenced by a past memory from a game I've played. If i had never heard/seen a dragon before, i wouldn't been able to visualize it. So it's a product of past experiences.

[Paulo]

Nicely done Alex,

immediately after your sentence was seen an image of a black dragon appeared in my head

You can see here (and probably with the car exercise too, that thought appears as a reaction to stimuli (in this case the request to think of a dragon), and it happens automatically, no 'I' here choosing what particular dragon or car appeared - it's totally mechanical, just a reaction.

Try that same exercise if you like with any other object or person - think of a blonde woman, a tv show, a fruit. Everytime LOOK and see what is actuallly happening, and see if you can find a chooser selecting those thoughts from all the thoughts that could have appeared.

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Let's go deeper, here we will look at another aspect of direct experience - FEELINGS.

Think of something that made you feel happy.

Is there an Alex there making you feel happy, or creating that emotion?

Did the experience of happiness you’ve just had last, or did you begin feeling something else after some time?

How did this change happen, did you choose another thought to make the happiness fade?


Paulo :-)

[Choppy]

Is there an Alex there making you feel happy, or creating that emotion?

No, there's nothing there that's creating anything.

Did the experience of happiness you’ve just had last, or did you begin feeling something else after some time?

The happiness faded and there was no specific feeling to be noted.

How did this change happen, did you choose another thought to make the happiness fade?

No, the thought that appeared was not chosen in any way. Why certain thoughts occur I'm not sure, but it appears to be entirely mechanical and most of the times predictable as you said.

[Paulo]

Nicely done,

And yes, as you've pointed out, there's nothing there creating or choosing feelings. Just like thoughts, they arise automatically in reaction to stimuli (in this case, the request to think of something happy).

Let's take a closer look at SENSATIONS in the body today -

When you find an appropriate place and time jump around a bit - wave your arms, stamp you feet, run here and there, twist, turn, spin.

The body moves, but is there an Alex there making this movement occur?

How is it that all those muscles and joints work so perfectly to enable you to type on a keyboard with such precision?

If you tried to grow your hair longer by sheer force of will, could you? What are the implications of this?

Paulo.

[Choppy]

I've been rather busy with life, so I'm sorry i couldn't reply sooner.

The body moves, but is there an Alex there making this movement occur?

There's no Alex to be found other than thoughts.

How is it that all those muscles and joints work so perfectly to enable you to type on a keyboard with such precision?

A lot of things in the body moves by itself; cells, blood, digestion and so on. But there's still thoughts occurring like "I might not control my heartbeat or other details in my body, but I'm moving my arms and legs." And similar thoughts, of course there's no "I" to be found anywhere.

If you tried to grow your hair longer by sheer force of will, could you? What are the implications of this?

That there's no one controlling the body. It's entirely automatic, and does so by itself.

[Paulo]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for taking time to reply, hope the move went smoothly for you and you're setting in well.

But there's still thoughts occurring like "I might not control my heartbeat or other details in my body, but I'm moving my arms and legs." And similar thoughts, of course there's no "I" to be found anywhere.

Nice observation, yes, thoughts seem to preceed some movement, and the movement can sometimes appear to follow those thoughts. But as you have seen with the 'car' exercise - thoughts of any kind are just that - thoughts. There is no 'I' there as you've spotted, seperate from that experience directing it.

Let's look even deeper at direct experience, at what's happening in reality -

Pick a time in your day (when it's safe to do so), and mentally shout 'STOP'. At that moment completely freeze, stop dead. No matter where you are or what you're doing - pretend you are a stone statue and freeze.

Take the next 60 secs and just be aware of life happening.

Is there anything there controlling or creating this experience?

Does life need a 'you' to happen? Did it ever?

[Be strict with yourself on this one - freeze completely, no body movement, no scratching that itch - you get the idea!]

Paulo.

[Choppy]

Thanks for taking time to reply, hope the move went smoothly for you and you're setting in well.

Yes, we're halfway there, gonna do the rest in a few days.

Is there anything there controlling or creating this experience?

Life continues no matter what "I" want. There's nothing there creating the current moment.

Does life need a 'you' to happen? Did it ever?

No, life never needed me as a concept, it occurs everywhere without me doing anything about it.

[Be strict with yourself on this one - freeze completely, no body movement, no scratching that itch - you get the idea!]

I tried the best i could, sadly there's thousands of mosquitoes out there that loves my blood. Yummeh! ;)

[Paulo]

Thanks Alex,

I tried the best i could, sadly there's thousands of mosquitoes out there that loves my blood. Yummeh! ;)

Lol, yes you gotta love those mozzies doing what it is mozzies do best!

Nice observation of the here and now as it happens.

Is there anything outside the present moment?

Is there anything outside direct experience? [i.e. thought, feeling, sensations, awareness]

Paulo.

[Choppy]

Is there anything outside the present moment?

The present moment includes everything that happens, there's nothing outside the present moment.

Is there anything outside direct experience? [i.e. thought, feeling, sensations, awareness]

Same thing here, nothing can happen outside direct experience. I see the whole universe as one single organism, everything from the planets, wind, ants and every cell in the body moves together in the present moment. They're all interconnected.

[Paulo]

Hi Alex,

I see the whole universe as one single organism, everything from the planets, wind, ants and every cell in the body moves together in the present moment. They're all interconnected.

A very nice analogy!

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self?

Don't spend too long looking at this. Just look, in the moment, rely only on your own experience.

Paulo.

[Choppy]

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self?

Once again the big question.

I've seen through that thoughts ultimately has nothing to do with what I am, i let feelings such as anger, sadness, happiness flow through me without attaching to them.

But I have not had a "AHA" experience which many others seem to have. It seems like there's some kind of waiting for this to happen. But it's just an expectation.

Since starting this journey at LU I've started becoming more aware of the present moments and thoughts, I'm definitely more calm than before. Feelings and sensations come and go, without touching me. I can now accept anything that happens, and I'm not resisting the current moment as I've previously done. I'm more interested in life in general.

Have i seen through the illusion of a separate self? This could be a trick question, since there's nothing behind everything that can see through the self. Merely observe its behavior and mechanical and predictable nature.
I can often see through thoughts, and not attach to them. But that's not 100% the case, in some moments I'm stil the usual me, stuck in thinking. But it's getting A LOT better. I'm also unsure what it feels/experience to see through the separate self, so i can't say if that's the case or not.

I hope this answers your question.

[Paulo]

But I have not had a "AHA" experience which many others seem to have. It seems like there's some kind of waiting for this to happen. But it's just an expectation.

Nicely spotted! Yes, all the above is just an expectation, just thought. The question you have to ask yourself is - do you want truth, or the comfortable lie.

Merely observe its behavior and mechanical and predictable nature.

What is it that's observing all this?

I can often see through thoughts, and not attach to them. But that's not 100% the case, in some moments I'm stil the usual me, stuck in thinking.

Again, just an expectation. Seeing that the self is an illusion and not a tangible, separate entity, is the first, and most important step. Seeing that 100% of the time may not be your experience just yet, but the experience will deepen with time. Everyone comes to the process from different backgrounds and cultures, and different states of readiness. Looking at what others are doing, or have experienced, is like a pupil in a classroom sneaking a peek at their neighbors exam paper and hoping to find their own answers there. Be where you are, now.

Reality is no respecter of expectations.

I'm also unsure what it feels/experience to see through the separate self, so i can't say if that's the case or not.

How do you know you're sitting in front of a computer now?

Paulo.

[Choppy]

Hey Paulo, we've just moved the last of the stuff, so I'm going to be able to post a lot more often now.

Nicely spotted! Yes, all the above is just an expectation, just thought. The question you have to ask yourself is - do you want truth, or the comfortable lie.

Truth! No more comfortable lies.

What is it that's observing all this?

Awareness. Actually now that this question came up I've understood that there's never really been any deep looking at just awareness. It seems that just the word "awareness" has stuck with me, and has been accepted, without never really been looked at.

By direct experience only nothingness can be found, "behind" looking there is just space. Around hearing there is just space. Around smell there is just space. Around touch there is just space. Around taste there is just space. And this space is aware of everything in existence.

How do you know you're sitting in front of a computer now?

Because there is awareness that can feel the chair against the skin, sensations of fingers touching the keyboard, feet touching the floor, view of a screen. There's awareness of it all.

[Paulo]

Hi Alex, great to hear the move went well, hope you're settling in nicely,

Truth! No more comfortable lies.

Good attitude, I like it!

By direct experience only nothingness can be found, "behind" looking there is just space. Around hearing there is just space. Around smell there is just space. Around touch there is just space. Around taste there is just space. And this space is aware of everything in existence.

Let's look at this awareness a little closer -

Is there any THING (i.e. a being, entity, personality), outside of the awareness of experience?

What would you say, based on direct experience only, if I told you that 'self' is just a label we put on certain experiences, and it has no existence outside of experience?

You're doing well, Paulo.