Requesting Guided

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Steve
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Steve » Tue May 28, 2013 2:04 am

Thank you! I may have said this before...but thank you for your guidance!
It's my great pleasure, Mark. Thank you for your honesty and engagement.
Mark is so clearly seen as an imagined character that there is simply no other way to see Mark. There is a character, an imagined character, not an actual Mark. The character of Mark is a thought.
Very clear. Great!
Certainly let things settle. Good idea. Just be watchful of any interpretive commentary thoughts with analytical content. They'll probably come along, and it's perfectly fine when they do. But their content is suspect. You've seen that all thought content is suspect. It can't touch the actual experience.
They certainly have come. Confusing at first, even scary. But, it is seen for what it is, THOUGHT. And it definitely can't touch the experience.
Is anyone there to be confused or scared? Or is it just noticing those feelings arise and subside?
Are you satisfied you've seen through the illusion of the separate self?
I'm going to take a little more time before answering this.
That's fine. Still no rush.

Here are a few more questions that will help you to focus, bring deeper clarity, and reveal any areas we may need to look at more closely:

With Mark revealed as an imagined character, what remains?

What lives?

What experiences?

What thinks?

What does?

What is aware?

No philosophical answers! Investigate direct experience and report, just as before. Write what you see is true when you look.

With Love,
Steve

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Markered
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Markered » Tue May 28, 2013 2:31 am

Is anyone there to be confused or scared? Or is it just noticing those feelings arise and subside?[/quote]

It is just noticing. Nothing is there to be confused or scared. Only the character could be confused or scared, in thought.
Markered wrote:
Steve wrote:
Are you satisfied you've seen through the illusion of the separate self?

I'm going to take a little more time before answering this.

That's fine. Still no rush.

Here are a few more questions that will help you to focus, bring deeper clarity, and reveal any areas we may need to look at more closely:

With Mark revealed as an imagined character, what remains?

What lives?

What experiences?

What thinks?

What does?

What is aware?

No philosophical answers! Investigate direct experience and report, just as before. Write what you see is true when you look.
Thank you for these questions. I will sit with them and report.

Mark

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Markered
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Markered » Tue May 28, 2013 3:53 pm

What lives?
There’s seeing arms. Thoughts. Fingers typing. Desk. Keyboard. Seeing. There is hearing, and the other senses.

There is sensory perception and there are thoughts. Nothing is seen other than this. What could live? Living is a thought. Can you help with a pointer?

Mark

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Markered
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Markered » Tue May 28, 2013 4:30 pm

Here are a few more questions that will help you to focus, bring deeper clarity, and reveal any areas we may need to look at more closely:

With Mark revealed as an imagined character, what remains?

What lives?

What experiences?

What thinks?

What does?

What is aware?



No philosophical answers! Investigate direct experience and report, just as before. Write what you see is true when you look.
There is living, experiencing, thinking, doing, awareness. There is a thought of something that lives, expereiences, thinks, does, and is aware. I can't see anything that actually does these things.

Mark

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Steve
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Location: Arizona, U.S.

Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Steve » Tue May 28, 2013 4:49 pm

There is living, experiencing, thinking, doing, awareness. There is a thought of something that lives, expereiences, thinks, does, and is aware. I can't see anything that actually does these things.
Beautiful! No pointer was needed!

As you see, these kinds of questions don't imply that you can discover a "what" to replace the character "Mark." They only provide a different framing for the investigation. They reveal that from whatever angle you look, what you find in experience is the same. Well done!

Are there any doubts that you've seen through the illusion?

With Love,
Steve

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Markered
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Markered » Tue May 28, 2013 4:59 pm

Thanks Steve! There are no doubts. What a wild ride!

Mark

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Steve
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Steve » Tue May 28, 2013 5:35 pm

Beautiful, Mark!

Here's one more set of questions to give you an opportunity to summarize and reveal to yourself what you see. There's no rush. Include as much detail as you like. Answer one at a time, a few at a time, or all at once. As always, answer from direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self,' 'me,' 'I,' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

With Love,
Steve

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Markered
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Markered » Thu May 30, 2013 12:14 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self,' 'me,' 'I,' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No. There is no self that can be identified. There is only a thought of a separate self with continuity. Without thought self does not exist. It never existed. There has only ever been a thought of self. That itself is a thought. Now, in direct experience, self does not exist.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of self is a mere thought. There are thoughts of a past with judgments, thoughts of a future with judgments. Thoughts of the now with judgments. None of it is actually what is happening now. Past thoughts are referenced for current and expected behavior, what is expected of us. Future thoughts predict outcomes, characterized by expectation, dread, hope, etc... There are thoughts of past and future selves that are the basis for our current illusion of self. There is comparison amongst all versions of self, the comparison itself being a thought. Feeling is intertwined throughout. There is typically dissatisfaction expressed as a thought of what self is now, as compared to past selves, actions of past self, predicted future self and outcomes. It is all bullshit. It isn't what is happening at all.

The self probably starts when the "I/me" thought first occurs, once language/labeling is intact. This I can only speculate.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Massive pressure release. There is a lack of pressure. Life feels the same and different. Rather than feeling feelings and having thoughts, there is just feeling happening / thoughts happening. It is like being outside of feelings/thoughts, as opposed to being inside of them or being them themselves. They come and go and tend not to hang around so long as they used to, passingly effortlessly. They do not demand attention but get the attention they get. They are not run from. They do not cause immersion. They do not bother anything. They are fine, even appreciated, feelings/thoughts of all kinds. Liberation is the accurate term. There is openness. There is calm and clarity in all perception. Sensory perception is effortless, whereas it was assumed something was doing perception prior to seeing through the illusion. The theme of effort has lost its essence. There really is no effort in living. Living just happens now.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Without a doubt the suggestion to "take it inside", not is thought or in the abstract. That is absolutely the turning point. Up until then there was so much analytical thought, so much effort of engagement. That was all very necessary to get to the point of taking it inside. But at that point of being able to truly take it inside there was no more concept, no more figuring. No more need to try to do this, to accomplish seeing through the illusion, get through the gate, etc...
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
No. There is no me to decide, intend, choose, or control. There is only a thought of a me that does these things. Outside of that thought what could do anything? Body moves, thoughts occur. There is nothing that can be identified that wills movement of body and thought. There is a thought of a me thought does, but that is only a thought, and that is seen. It cannot be believed. Driving a car, washing hands, typing words...everything. When they are looked at it is clear that nothing can be identified as intending anything. Sitting on a couch. Only a thought says "should I get up", "I'm going to get up", "I'm going to stay seated". Only thought. What chooses these thoughts? All that can claim the choosing is a thought, and that thought is thought. Thought doesn't think. It just is.
6) Anything to add?
Yes. Steve, THANK YOU for your guidance. I cannot express my gratitude.

Mark

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Markered
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Markered » Thu May 30, 2013 12:31 am

There is acceptance that doesn't even require the label 'acceptance'. This could be labeled "ising":) This is a joke.

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Steve
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Location: Arizona, U.S.

Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Steve » Thu May 30, 2013 12:52 am

Beautiful, Mark! Very clear and thorough.

I'm going to ask other guides to look at this and see whether they have additional questions. I'll let you know.

LU has several Facebook groups for those who have crossed the gate, where investigations and discussions can continue. There's one for the newly gated that can be very helpful. If you're interested, send me your Facebook ID in a private message, and I'll pass the information along. You'll receive invitations once the guides and admins complete their work.
THANK YOU for your guidance. I cannot express my gratitude.
It's been my great pleasure, Mark. Thank you for allowing me to walk with you.
There is acceptance that doesn't even require the label 'acceptance'. This could be labeled "ising":) This is a joke.
Make mine chocolate!

With Love,
Steve

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Markered
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Postby Markered » Thu May 30, 2013 1:14 am

Markered wrote:
There is acceptance that doesn't even require the label 'acceptance'. This could be labeled "ising":) This is a joke.

Make mine chocolate!
Haha, I was going for "izzing", like is-ing, verb form of "is". It also may just be an assumption that you interpreted "icing". What a wonderful endpoint!

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Steve
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:42 am
Location: Arizona, U.S.

Re:

Postby Steve » Thu May 30, 2013 1:30 am

Haha, I was going for "izzing", like is-ing, verb form of "is". It also may just be an assumption that you interpreted "icing". What a wonderful endpoint!
I saw it as both! :)

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Steve
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:42 am
Location: Arizona, U.S.

Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Steve » Thu May 30, 2013 2:51 am

Hi, Mark. The guides have no further questions. Welcome home!

Shortly you'll see your ID here turn blue, and you'll receive a PM from an admin about Facebook and other goodies.

It's just the beginning!

With Love,
Steve

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Markered
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Re: Requesting Guided

Postby Markered » Thu May 30, 2013 4:10 am

Thank you Steve!


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