DeTales

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vinceschubert
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Re: DeTales

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:02 am

It is all kind of new, and hard to put into words.
Given that language is based on a sham and that there are so few adjectives in english (i think in arabic there are about 5 times as many as english), then it's not surprising that it's hard to describe.
Anton, it seems clear here that you 'know' that the I/self/me thing is purely conceptual ? Is that correct. Not just at an intellectual level, but that experientially one can neither be found nor any evidence of one. Correct ?
There should be no thinking about the answer. If it didn't come immediately, then we have more work to do on this.
If the answer is yes, then write a few lines on how it feels to see through the illusion.

love

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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DeTales
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Re: DeTales

Postby DeTales » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:56 am

What it feels like is that there is a movie going on. It has unexpected scenes and revelations. There are still desires, comparisons, planning, and things getting done, but there is no, or only a suspected? trace of doing. There is watching for accuracy. Using "I" is for navigational purposes, not as if there is a person here. It seems kind of stunning that I'm saying that? There is no doubt that there is a momentum of mental habit and things which that brings up. But there's not a struggle of guilt or pride, or other than momentary reactivity, just acceptance. It will work out as it works out, and I get to watch, as it were. And there is no sense that what's being presented as mentality is what constitutes "I," only that it is what is going by. I can be critical about it, or evaluative, but it is a matter of seeing relative values, say, as "if I do this, it will delay getting that done." Or "This needs to be done now, or there will be unwanted consequences to deal with." Or "That makes/doesn't make sense..." Re-reading that, it seems that "I" is awkwardly used. And it is less of being a decider than of being attracted into a direction, if that make sense. That is what gives me a bit of disbelief that this is it? There's a deal of fatigue to deal with too. Seems I want to nap a lot, as it is rather a lot to deal with, though it is not a doing but a showing, or happening. Do I know I know? I know that me is a fake and will play out as it will. I do not know what is coming, just that I will go with it. No, it will take me. It feels like I'm at a new house and scoping it out. Powerless, but power is present as the flow of what's happening. So it is kind of all new. e.g. It doesn't matter that I "know" there is Tai Chi class to go to tonight. That's just a thought, and will be whatever experience it will be when I get there, assuming that happens, as will all the now as that picture flows by. Boy.

This is awkward to talk about. Your Arabic reference reminds me of the Eskimo one about 20(?) words for snow. And we have one and a couple of adjectives, and the injunction not to eat the yellow kind. And a lot of other things about the inadequacy of language. But that's it for now. Maybe when we all grow up we will revive Sanskrit.

Thanks,

Love,

Anton

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vinceschubert
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Re: DeTales

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:53 am

we will revive Sanskrit.
What a brilliant brain exercise. The idea of learning Sanskrit excites this organism.
Seems I want to nap a lot,
That is usual as (story a lot of the processing happens in various stages of sleep.
From this NOW on, it may seem a bit like you have woken up on an alien planet and inhabited by alien beings, in that there may well be a constant (or frequent anyway) Wonder with what passes by. WonderFull !
You might also grok what is meant by "BE as a child.."
i have requested the 3 confirmations necessary to invite you to post gate groups where both necessary and useful as well as entertaining stuff happens.

loving feelings here.

v
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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Re: DeTales

Postby DeTales » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:55 am

Kind of relieved and not (about what?), expected it, didn't, and all that. One wonder is that there seems to be an empirical understanding of what the physicists mean by saying that it is all probability until it is observed. And then it is still just something observed. In the moment. Because the next moment is it's own uniqueness. Religion and science are kind of in the same boat. It feels I've a friend in Alice as well, as it becomes "curiouser and curiouser." The feeling of being amongst aliens in not new and yet constantly a surprise at every encounter. Configurations are infinity variable and, devoid of judgment, all of interest as form.

Love and gratitude, and warmth.

Anton

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Re: DeTales

Postby DeTales » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:41 am

Oh, I have to add: loved that you used "grock," as Heinlein was a major influence in my childhood and later. One of my book cases has a shelf devoted to his works. A recent conversation with Steve, also a Heinlein fan, had these lines:

A) Some changes happening as result of wroking (sic) with Vince.

S) Continued unfolding, seeing deeper.

A) Yes. Unfolding is a wonderfully appropriate word.

S) Good to hear about changes happening. Stick with it!

A) Is "wroking" a blend of "working" and Groking?"
rofl

Anyway, so it goes. I'm just in tears and grins with gratitude as I'm chatting with Steve now, and for you for having patience to work with me. It is all a miracle.....

Love,

Anton

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Re: DeTales

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:55 am

Anton, a question from another guide;
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

love

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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Re: DeTales

Postby DeTales » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:50 pm

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
What happens arises as spontaneously as thoughts arise; there doesn't seem to be a difference. It's kind of like "Oh, that's happening." So there's no control, because there's no constructing of the experience, it is a presentation and includes newness, or is newness. I mean there are all the names for things and dynamics, but it is kind of spontaneous rich text, not plain. Even how I make coffee in the morning or where I put the cup between typing sentences isn't really a decision, it puts the cup there and that's new. There's about as much control over it as the phone ringing. "Look! I can levitate birds!" :)

There can be a narrative about what's going one, but it's descriptive, not constructive. The former star of the show can't be given credit for the lines or the story. Even my dreams last night were about "there's nothing to do; nothing can be done; yet it all happens." There was a strange absence of desiring to convince anyone which persists. There is no convincing anyone. Or me. The news seems oddly hollow, and the usual emotional reactions and judgments are absent as prime, because it all feels like a silly play. It is un-believable.

Deciding? Intending? Choosing? What those are "about" "to" or "between" comes as spontaneously as anything else, appearing unbidden, and it seems to be a matter of perception. The action is already in play, not really distinct from the perception. There's a shadow of the thought process that used to be energized around some things, but it is not charged with a "dramatis persona" who is the sufferer of consequences. The drama of things seems to have drained out without effecting the presence of senses or feelings. If anything, things are more sparkly. So I'd say on reflection that the life agenda that was intended to be taken care of still is there as part of the field of possibilities, but there is the knowledge that what, it will unfold with its surprises and turns without causing upset due to clinging to a desired outcome in a particular way. As my business partner used to say, "vamos a ver." Let's go see.

So I can "decide" to go use the computer, draw the shades, or do errands. But the circumstance of that decision is inherent in the flow and can't be abstracted from it as a discreet act, and it never happens the same way twice as it is all festooned with accidentals and incidentals of unrepeatable difference. Deciding, choosing, or intending are broad descriptives not reflecting the reality of the minutiae of flow in the moment. I'm not sure they really mean anything in fact. They are kinds of a conveniences of language that supports the illusion of a self apart. Heinlein was right: "In English, the present tense singular of the verb 'to be' is the only one true to fact." And the subject/verb/object construction is vastly misleading and mechanistic. Like I said, Vince, back to Sanskrit.

Deciding, intending, and choosing were left for last, because it is not entirely clear whether there's a lack of linguistic facility in expressing how those are seen, of if there is residue of an I lurking, or if it has to do with a kind of persistence of vision that happens when you see things for an instant when you shut your eyes as if they were open, except this is kind of reverse. There's no delusion here that there's no "work" to be done from here on out, but as I told Steve, it is an infinite Unfolding. That implies it is all already there, but is seen in increasing fullness as it opens. And it doesn't seem to me that as quick, surprisingly quick as realizations are, that the brain re-wires instantly to accommodate those in all their implications. In fact, it appears to me that that sort of happens as events happen and recognition allows an expansion of awareness to include perception of greater patterns and subtler connectivity, and just plain "oh wow! I never say THAT coming!" :) It's like all the props are holographic and faceted to see an infinity of combinations riffing off each other, seen according to one's ability and intensity. It is all a gift. So even if I'm half-baked, there is no doubt that the oven is on. :)

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Re: DeTales

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:23 pm

because it is not entirely clear whether there's a lack of linguistic facility in expressing how those are seen, of if there is residue of an I lurking, or if it has to do with a kind of persistence of vision
Anton, say (a little) more on the possible I that's possibly lurking. From experiencing, not logic.

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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Re: DeTales

Postby DeTales » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:36 am

Anton, say (a little) more on the possible I that's possibly lurking. From experiencing, not logic.
It has to do with what appears as barrages of thoughts about everything from being a complete fake to strings of thoughts in the form of "I will, I need, I see, blah, blah, blah." There are often even physical sensations that come with them, sometimes pretty strong. That also includes wondering if there's not some ego going on. But that doesn't makes sense. It is all a presentation, and awareness isn't effected by any of that. It is all still happening in awareness, and if it is seen, it isn't what I am. I'm guessing that there's some thrashing going on in the mind, and it surprised me as to how strong it got at one point. It felt like an attack, if that makes any sense. But it seemed necessary to state all the possibilities. It was an attempt to be honest as there appeared to be a question. I'd say the operative word is "appeared." There is a chimeric element to the mind. Or it is just a chimera, period. Seems clear now why one of the names of the devil is "the deceiver." Don't get me started, lol! :)

Love,

Anton

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Re: DeTales

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:42 pm

Anton, confirms are in. Friend me on facebook so that i can invite you to some groups where stabilization and 'deepening' can occur. https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert

love & metta

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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Re: DeTales

Postby DeTales » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:25 pm

Thanks, Vince, for everything! Heh, heh, "everything" sounds different!"Friended" you on Fb. Enjoyed scrolling down and seeing many already familiar themes. Being Magyar, (Hungarian) I signed that petition straight off. But it is the stabilization and "deepening" that are most attractive right now.

Namaste, Love, and gratitude,

Anton


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