requesting a guide

[Paulo]

Thanks Robyn, nice inquiry, you#re doing well,

You asked me: Who is perceiving the perceiver? What's behind the perceiver? When I really look at this I can't find anything. There really is nothing behind the perceiver. It made me laugh, thinking about it. It's as if 'I' am the originator, almost a god, which is ridiculous. I know I'm not the originator. This feels important but I don't think I can say any more about it right now.

Let’s focus on the idea of ‘I’ being an originator. What does that look like – is there actually an originator there, a separate being sitting on a cloud, or just a thought about an originator?

Keep well,

Paulo.

[robyn lee]

Dear Paulo,
I thought about what you wrote: Is there an originator there or just a thought about an originator? I also went back to the article by Neil Jalaldeen and the phrase 'only experience' leapt out at me.
I know there isn't an originator as this is absurd. Robyn came into being but she didn't create herself. It is just a thought.
I sat quietly for awhile and what came to my mind was a very chaotic emotional time in my life (about ten years ago). I recently re-read the journal I kept then and it was difficult for 'me' (now) to recognise the 'me' who had written those words. So much has changed.
While sitting with this, it felt that something broke open. I was weeping but there wasn't sadness. More a huge release. In thinking about that time of ten years ago, I saw that there is 'only experience', the experience of ten years ago and the experience of now. The 'Robyn' that I have clung to for 66 years is just experience. And that experience changes all the time.
I hope this is helpful, Paulo. It can be difficult to put into words what feels big and important.
Love,
Robyn

[Paulo]

I know there isn't an originator as this is absurd. Robyn came into being but she didn't create herself. It is just a thought.

Very nice Robyn, you can see that just like your story of the car – experience happens, and afterwards the mind comes in and gives it a label, associates it with other memories, and weaves it into your current worldview. This filing and sorting happens automatically, no ‘I’ there separate from the process directing the show.

While sitting with this, it felt that something broke open. I was weeping but there wasn't sadness. More a huge release.

Good, emotional release happens, it’s great you can let it just be there and do its own thing. You will have seen that the emotion, like everything else arose in response to stimuli, which in turn triggered memories, experience happened, and then faded as other experiences arose.

In thinking about that time of ten years ago, I saw that there is 'only experience', the experience of ten years ago and the experience of now. The 'Robyn' that I have clung to for 66 years is just experience. And that experience changes all the time.

I think it would be appropriate for us now to look at time itself –

There is nothing outside the present moment.

Consider that statement, but don’t respond right away. Take it with you throughout your day and watch it in different circumstances. Try to find me something outside the present moment – go on, there’s a prize if you do :-)

Have fun with that one Robyn, Paulo.

[robyn lee]

Hi Paulo,
I will consider the statement. It's possible I might not write until tomorrow as I'm busy this evening and I don't want to write a rushed response.
Thanks again and I will try to have fun!
Robyn

[Paulo]

Thanks for the message Robyn, I do appreciate you updating me even if you have nothing to report. It keeps you engaged in the process, and that makes the world of difference.

Being busy is an excellant time to look at that statement as you will really be able to see it's validity. Perhaps write it on the back of your hand, keep it in your pocket, or find some other way of reminding yourself to look at the moment right there in front of you.

I'm excited to see what you find.

Paulo :-)

[robyn lee]

Hi Paulo,
'Looking at the moment, right here is front of me', this is the flavour of my day:
Sometimes I was absorbed (in the zone) when I was doing something I enjoyed (gardening, hanging out sheets to dry). I sat for awhile and watched clouds moving across the sky. Thoughts would intrude and take me away from the experience of the clouds and then I would come back to them. I ate three meals but really only enjoyed breakfast; lunch and dinner I seemed to be on auto-pilot, just getting through them. I talked to my sister in the States (I live in the UK) and we started to plan a trip together in September. When I hung up, I got anxious and caught up in thoughts about the trip (the future). Waiting to be picked up to go out in the evening, there was profound boredom and the desire for time to move more quickly.
In watching the present moment throughout the day, 'I' was all of these things: aware of the moment, distracted, interested, absorbed, bored, forgetful, lost in thoughts of the past and anxious about the future. 'Time' went slowly and quickly and sometimes I wasn't aware of time at all.
It feels like 'not being in the moment' when I'm distracted, forgetful, anxious. It feels like 'being in the moment' when I'm interested and aware. But I had a strong sense that it is ALL the present moment, whether I'm distracted or aware, thinking of the past or the future, it's all taking place in the present and the present moment is all there is. I couldn't find anything outside the present moment, so I guess I don't win the prize!
What feels different about this is that in the past I would give myself a hard time around being distracted or anxious and yesterday I was able to just BE with this and accept that it is also the present moment. Hope that makes sense.
Love,
Robyn

[robyn lee]

Hi Paulo,
Another observation: feeling differently about 'the present moment' links to 'not being the originator' (of myself). The present moment just is, with or without me.
Robyn

[Paulo]

Hi Robyn, lovely observations indeed,

But I had a strong sense that it is ALL the present moment, whether I'm distracted or aware, thinking of the past or the future, it's all taking place in the present and the present moment is all there is. I couldn't find anything outside the present moment, so I guess I don't win the prize!

Great – you see now that everything happens in the present moment. We sometimes daydream, and believe it takes us away from the moment, but that too, like you say, also happens in the moment. The daydream is just that - a dream, an illusion, no matter how vivid or real it may seem, there is only direct experience in reality.

The present moment just is, with or without me.

Seems like you pre-empted my next question Robyn :)

Look with your physical eyes – can you see a separate entity called ‘I’ anywhere in the present ?

Again, don’t answer immediately, take some time to really investigate this – look everywhere – in the attic, under the bed, even check the bushes outside. Be thorough here, don’t leave a stone unturned.

Paulo

[robyn lee]

Hi Paulo,
I might take a day or so to reply. Hope that's OK.
Thanks again, Paulo,
Robyn

[Paulo]

That's perfectly fine, just keep a look out for that illusive 'I' as you go about your daily business.

Thanks Robyn, Paulo.

[robyn lee]

Hi Paulo,
Well it's been an interesting time. You asked me 'Can you see a separate entity called "I" anywhere in the present?' So, I looked and felt with my senses and noticed that 'things' come and go all the time (bees, butterflies, clouds, rain, thoughts, emotions, wind, people) and in the present there isn't an 'I' anywhere. There is just the physical body that is experiencing. Two phrases came to mind: 'perception is enough' and 'there is only ever perception'. These had a strong effect on me making me feel more alive and part of life and also feeling a lot of gratitude.
But resistance was there too some of the time, when my thinking mind got going. I saw that I want my 'aliveness' to be special, in a way just about me! Taken to extremes, this is the delusion that things only exist because 'I' see them or hear them or smell them. You said to be honest so I felt I needed to mention this.
Love,
Robyn

[Paulo]

Thanks Robyn, and yes, honesty is the way to go. When you feel any resistance just look at it, allow it to be there, watch it arise, stay for awhile, and then move on as other feelings and thoughts replace it. Same as the bees, butterflies, clouds - life just being, all existing only in the present moment. Nothing is preserved or stands still.

Taken to extremes, this is the delusion that things only exist because 'I' see them or hear them or smell them

Is there an 'I' there to hear or smell, or is there just hearing and smelling?

Take a practical approach when looking at this - spend some time listening to something (bee buzzing, wind blowing trees), or just smelling (baked bread, fruit, flowers). Observe what happens and share when you are ready.

Love, Paulo.

[robyn lee]

Hi Paulo,
It's been an amazing time!
You asked me to spend time listening, smelling, looking and observing what happens. Is there an 'I' there to hear or smell or is it just hearing and smelling.
I noticed that when something impinged on my senses (hearing, smelling, tasting, looking), at first there was no sense of an 'I'. So, for example, I was on the bus going into town and someone sat next to me who smelt of garlic. Two young men behind me were swearing and showing off to each other. The bus rattled a lot when stopping to pick up passengers and I could feel the vibrations through the seat. The heat was on even though it was a warm day.
What I noticed next was that thinking kicked in: I like it, I don't like it, it's pleasant, it's unpleasant. But this didn't have an 'I' either. It wasn't personal. It was habit and the usual stories and thoughts that arise. I felt accepting of this and the thoughts came and went.
My whole day has had this flavour of one event flowing into the next. The senses pick up on something and this experience is stayed with for a certain period of time; thoughts and feelings arise and then this is what is being experienced.
In Gateless Gatecrashers, Dave says (about there being no 'I'): 'Maybe that's why we feel the same inside as our bodies age. We don't feel different inside because there is no one there inside to feel any different.'
This seems very meaningful to me; it explains this feeling of 'aliveness, presence' without a 'self'.
I did wonder how it would be if I was hurt (emotionally or physically) or feeling threatened.
Thanks again, Paulo, it's an amazing journey!
Love,
Robyn

[Paulo]

Hi Robyn, so glad you're enjoying the ride :-)

You can see from you experience that sensations happen, later to be automatically labelled and incorporated in a story, with all kinds of categories and judgements, plots and sub-plots. No seperate 'I' there at all directing this whole business. You can see also how important personal experience is, and what a diference it makes just looking, instead of gaining an intellectual understanding.

When you say 'I' what is it you are referring to in direct experience?

Love, Paulo ;-)

[robyn lee]

Hi Paulo,
When I say 'I', I'm not referring to anything in direct experience. It feels like getting used to a new way of expressing experience. So I said 'I like it. I don't like it.' then added 'It's pleasant. It's unpleasant.' The direct experience is 'pleasant' and 'unpleasant'. The way to label experience is new.