AWAkening is just a click AWAy ... (ifUwant2)

[CreatriX]

o. Before I go another word further. Could you please tell me what you see within your self when I say. There is no you Agynes. There is still an ego which will take some falling away completely, as will mine and everyone else here. But that is all there is. A lousy ego producing all that suffering, and that phoney witness/watcher which we don't need either.

So, the Gate is a symbol of self, which does not exist.
I believe that there is no self - and I guess, this is all I can do about it.
But i don't live it (probably) - because i don't feel being part of everything.

When i cook, eat, or do something i am aware of the fact that everything is happening by itself, that there is no me who is doing it. And this is fine. So, what. Is this all ?
I am not joyful, i am not high or low neither. Everything feels neutral to me today (but this is probably only because i've got enough sleep and took a walk - it can change tomorrow).

I am not enthusiastic about liberation any more and there is no frustration neither.
If you say we finish this duel - okay. If you say we continue - okay. I simply obey, you are the guide.
I believe i will be liberated one day, sooner or later, because i want to know the truth...

I love to observe how spontaneously cats act and behave. When a cat is out there in the cold weather, she doesn't know that she is cold - she has no self to comprehend it. That is why animals are one with the nature.
But i am a human being, who can be aware of awareness.

I understand that the reason why i don't see the void is because there is my illusive self, which has to be removed.
I just cannot make the self disappear. It is not possible to become enlightened - it just happens (or not).
So, there is waiting until it happens. Right? What else can i do ?
One cannot get a sleep - falling asleep just happens. The same with awakening.

[Robin.]

So, the Gate is a symbol of self, which does not exist.
I believe that there is no self - and I guess, this is all I can do about it.
But i don't live it (probably) - because i don't feel being part of everything.

No darlin. The gate or passing through the no gate is a metaphor for realising the truth that there is no you. No one to take blame. No one to suffer any more. The gate is a liberation from the prison of the mind that keeps us imprisoned into limited beliefs, and false teachings.
Even if you don't feel a sense of being a part of everything that is. It doesn't stop this being the truth. You are made of the same chemicals and elements that everything else is. Liberation is only the beginning of a whole new way of living and thinking. It is an ongoing battle that produces all kinds of things. As deepening of your own truth happens then more, and more, of the old ego falls away,and so does life open up more, and more to you.

When i cook, eat, or do something i am aware of the fact that everything is happening by itself, that there is no me who is doing it. And this is fine. So, what. Is this all ?
I am not joyful, i am not high or low neither. Everything feels neutral to me today (but this is probably only because i've got enough sleep and took a walk - it can change tomorrow).

When you cook and eat this doesn't happen by itself. It is a natural response to your body feeling hunger and so you tend to it. This has nothing to do with release from the false I. The body needs maintenance.
Even after liberation life go's on much the same. It is your knowledge that what you took to be "me" or "I" was a lie. The all is literally every living thing you see. Plant mineral, animal, human. You are part of that totality. There is much, much more to discuss on this after liberation. And many wise minds to discuss these points with.

I am not enthusiastic about liberation any more and there is no frustration neither.
If you say we finish this duel - okay. If you say we continue - okay. I simply obey, you are the guide.
I believe i will be liberated one day, sooner or later, because i want to know the truth...

Agynes. You say duel as if it were warfare we are engaged in. My purpose is to help you to see the absence of an I anywhere. When I have satisfied this aim we will be done. But this is really only the beginning. You seem despondent. This is the truth I am giving you. There are many other facts to be obtained. But for here, once you have seen this truth, and accepted deep within you that there is no "I" life will never be the same for you

I understand that the reason why i don't see the void is because there is my illusive self, which has to be removed.

Here you are presupposing something that you have read. You don't see this void? There is no void to witness here in this point of liberation. You must detach yourself from everything, and everyone. Only accept what you can actually see and witness as your truth.

So now I will ask you : Can you see any sign of an "I" anywhere within yourself ?

When you investigate this falseness of an I being present. You will only find a programmed I. Examine happenings, and events that have taken place at different times in your life and ask yourself. Did I do this? was it I that made that choice ? How many things in your life have been caused, and not been a natural happening to no one?

Lastly. If you were to explain this truth of no "I" to someone, and the fact that there is no separation between you and me, and everything else. How would you describe it. In your own words.

We can continue to talk for as long as it takes Agynes. This is not a burden, or a problem to me.

Much love Robin.

[CreatriX]

You say duel as if it were warfare we are engaged in.

Oh, Robin, I checked in the dictionary the exact meaning of the word 'duel' -it's supposed to be 'duet' .
Sorry about it - writing in English is pretty challanging for me.

So now I will ask you : Can you see any sign of an "I" anywhere within yourself ?

Indeed, I don't see much signs of self. But this is so unbelievable. How is it possible? Shall I throw away my old diaries written from age 13 ? Who the heck wrote them if not me ? My nonexistent self? Who did the act of writing ? I don't get this, I need explanation, please.

Examine happenings, and events that have taken place at different times in your life and ask yourself. Did I do this? was it I that made that choice ? How many things in your life have been caused, and not been a natural happening to no one?

This is not clear to me. Are you saying that there is not such thing as free will ? Yes, I agree, in non duality there are no choices between two sides.
But, here is an example : in practical life, I still have to decide if I am taking a job which is offered to me, or not. Right ? How is it then? Predestination?

If you were to explain this truth of no "I" to someone, and the fact that there is no separation between you and me, and everything else. How would you describe it. In your own words.

Honestly, I am not able to explain this - because I don't live it , though I would like to - it has not been yet realized in my life. I know and believe that there is only oneness of all things - I have absolutely no doubts about it .

I've found excerpts on the net from Jed McKenna's books - very interesting !
He says that the paradox is that there is no paradox (what is true in oneness).
I don't know where I am stuck ?

[Robin.]

Hi Agynes. Your English is absolutely amazing compared to my attempt at your language. I cannot speak a word.

A duel, is a fight between two people. A duet, is a musical performance, or a piece of music or song for two people.
We are simply having a conversation for two people or a One on one conversation.

Indeed, I don't see much signs of self. But this is so unbelievable. How is it possible? Shall I throw away my old diaries written from age 13 ? Who the heck wrote them if not me ? My nonexistent self? Who did the act of writing ? I don't get this, I need explanation, please.

You say you don't see much sign of a self. That would imply there is some sign of self. Where is this "I" Tell me where an I is within you. Your old diaries were written by your egoic self. This is the same self that is trying to confuse you now for its own survival. This is a constructed personality which started to take shape at about the age of 18 months, to two years old. Prior to that there was nothing. There never was an I. Don't use belief. I believe there is no I. No!!! Look and find one. There isn't one. Forget Jed McKenna Let Agynes find an I for me and tell me where she found it. Do you still believe in Father Christmas, or Micky mouse as being real people. Or the tooth fairy? No! You know they don't exist. Those diaries were written by your ego age 13 years old or whatever age your body was at the time.

This is not clear to me. Are you saying that there is not such thing as free will ? Yes, I agree, in non duality there are no choices between two sides.
But, here is an example : in practical life, I still have to decide if I am taking a job which is offered to me, or not. Right ? How is it then? Predestination?

Your ego decides if you will take a job or not. and No. Will is not free, there is always a price to pay. Everything will still happen with or without you. When you are liberated you will see that there is only happening. Applying for new job is happening. It doesn't need you to do anything. There is only NOW. Past and future never ever exist except in memory.

Honestly, I am not able to explain this - because I don't live it , though I would like to - it has not been yet realized in my life. I know and believe that there is only oneness of all things - I have absolutely no doubts about it .

When you can see that there is no I, never ever was an I there will be no need to say I believe in nonduality It will be as the tooth fairy. Of course there is no tooth fairy, of course there is no Santa Clause. It was all belief. And to steal something I read here yesterday Belief or believe has a lie in it Be-Lie-ve. Belief is not worth anything. Find me that I you say is you. Look hard and ponder. Search deep and show me where this I is.
Once you see for yourself you will laugh hysterically at the madness of this. (I Hope LOL )

[CreatriX]

Hi Robin,
i just want to let you know that i am okay, i've only got sick,
i cannot sleep and eat,drink (nausea, diarrhea).
If this is due to some cleansing, i am happy about it.
I will write soon.
Happy New Year.

[Robin.]

OK darlin. I do hope you get well soon. A very happy healthy new year. I hope you stay with us and grow in a deepening understanding of this wonderful freedom we all share here.


Love to you,

Robin.

[CreatriX]

Robin,
I am desperate for not seeing the Truth, and I am about to give it up again.
It's like looking at the 3D picture and not seeing the hidden, deeper layer, only the flat, shadowy 2D ...
Everything seems to me grey, dull, boring, meaningless (though I am not depressed) - no aliveness at all. I have no reason to get up in the morning, I have nothing to do except taking care of my body. I wish to die, because I cannot enjoy the life.

This morning I was (here comes me) thinking, do I want to read or should I rather turn on the computer ?
I decided (me again) to pick up a book, borrowed from the library. I opened it and the title of the first chapter says : " Welcome in the club of liberated people!" And the whole book is about how to let go.
I guess, one cannot escape its destiny ...
I know, we have to live it directly, not read about it.

I need to ask this one more time:
If you say 'there is no me/you' does it mean the same as 'there is no ego' ?
Yes, there is no ego, but there is the higher self, what is keeping me alive, the Life itself.
I just cannot reaffirming myself that 'I dont exist', because I know and feel that I do exist. It's me and not my sister or anybody else. From the perspective of my Mom, we both are her daughters but from my sisters point of view she is not me and I am not her.

Who owns my body? Who lives in my body? Who/what leaves my body when I die? There IS something, we can call it Life-force.
There is no duality. I agree, I have no problem with that.
But if we say: 'i don't exist', it does not make sense to me, it sounds silly to me. I can only believe it with blind faith, or, I can fake it until I make it.
An example: I am watching my breathing - the breathing is happening. There must be somebody, who is watching, otherwise I would not be aware of the breathing.
There must be an observer. Quantum physicks tells, there is no event without an observer. You are saying that there is no watcher !?

Is the Void the inner space, spaciousness ? Does it feel somewhat like enormous, dark, velvet, cosmic womb?

I have noticed that Jed McKenna is suggesting to forget about all spiritual teaching and traditions. Though, the 'there is no you' means the same what Jesus taught about 'loosing yourself' - only said 2000 years later and put in different words. And no wonder, JM is not going public, like Jesus did. It's well known how he ended for saying the truth and not being understood...

[Robin.]

Robin,
I am desperate for not seeing the Truth, and I am about to give it up again.
It's like looking at the 3D picture and not seeing the hidden, deeper layer, only the flat, shadowy 2D ...
Everything seems to me grey, dull, boring, meaningless (though I am not depressed) - no aliveness at all. I have no reason to get up in the morning, I have nothing to do except taking care of my body. I wish to die, because I cannot enjoy the life.

Agynes. Depression is part of my daily, professional work. My purpose here is to help you with liberation, and freedom from self. This paragraph is classic depression expressing itself. You really should consult you doctor about this. medications are necessary believe me. This is not to be taken lightly. If you had a gash in your leg, you wouldn't hesitate to seek medical help. This is no different. Trust me.

I need to ask this one more time:
If you say 'there is no me/you' does it mean the same as 'there is no ego' ?
Yes, there is no ego, but there is the higher self, what is keeping me alive, the Life itself.
I just cannot reaffirming myself that 'I dont exist', because I know and feel that I do exist. It's me and not my sister or anybody else. From the perspective of my Mom, we both are her daughters but from my sisters point of view she is not me and I am not her.

No Agynes. The ego still exists. It is your ego that stops you from seeing that it is not authentic.

Look for that "I" Tell me where you see an I am.

You are quoting Jed McKenna again. for the most part of your last paragraph. prior to that you are asking me questions that are not relevant to helping you.

Simply see that the body is the body. It is physical, it performs functions entirely without any help from an "I"
Try and stop your hair from growing. Try and stop breathing.
Stop digestion. Stop your hair from growing.
Your brain is also physical. It is a computer that has stored all the data that has been put there. It is the home of you ego, the part of you that holds facts, lies, beliefs that aren't true, and haven't been verified first hand.

I want you to look beyond the above facts, and you tell me! Where do you see an "I" Where is it?

Much love. Robin.

[CreatriX]

Look for that "I" Tell me where you see an I am.

There is no I/me - this is the truth. In reality, there is no I.
Now it is clear to me that it was only a believe that the self exists - and believes cannot be proven. Now I know.
The I is like a balloon filled with air (= thoughts), nothing more.

The story is over when there is no one searching and no one finding.
It started with looking for the self and ends with finding no self.
And, how strange, it does not feel like the end of the world, but like new beginnings.

I don't know what else to say about it because simply, the self is not here, not there, it's nowhere.
It took me a while to realize this shocking truth.
I think Adam and Eve had to leave the symbolic garden of Eden because their mind created the 'I"
and that's why humans suffer. It was our fault, and only we can 'undo' it.

To be liberated means to me regaining back innocence.
The past is erased and the strings of attachment were cut.
It feels like in springtime when nature creates new life.

[Robin.]

This is awesome Agynes. I think we're almost there. Would you just answer these questions below then we can get some verification for you.

1. Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
2. Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.
3. How does it feel to be liberated?
4. How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no separate entity ‘me’?
If any of the answers is not clear—ask more questions.


Much love to you.

Robin.

[Robin.]

Nudge.

[CreatriX]

1. There's absolutely no me/I, it cannot be found anywhere, it has no shape or form because it does not exist in reality and never did. Self is a lie, a false, misleading belief.

2. The 'I' is only a word, a thought and there is nothing solid or stable behind it - it's an illusion or fantasy.
En example : 'January ' is only a word, which labels a certain time period. And we tend to agree and believe that 'January ' exists - but this is not true.
Personality is built around the self, which is created by variety of different thoughts/feelings. Together with the body they create an individual, a person.
Every thought and sensation is attached to the imaginary self. Animals don't have a self - they don't think/speak. They don't need a thinking, controlling mind in order to survive. Thoughts are only concepts, something artificially created by the mind. They come and go and cause reactions. Yes, there are emotions and there are thoughts, but there is no self.

3. One of the results of liberation is that lots of toxic emotions left my system and my body feels much cleaner, stronger, healthier. Also, relationship with my mother is getting better. It has been a lifelong problem and I was not able to solve it no matter how hard I tried. Now it is clear to me why : the problems (=thoughts!) were built around the non-existential "I".
I care much less about things what usually bothered and irritated me - It's all vanity anyways.
I have lost interest in reading magazines on psychology and similar kinds - it's all about fixing and making to look better the ego, instead of realizing the roots of suffering.

In my understanding what we call liberation is seeing through this veil of illusion. I was liberated from the attachment to the self and the tyranny of it. No more seeing from the perspective of "I" - and this is kind of a shift what changes everything .
This is leading to awakening and finally to enlightenment. Which is the only reason why we were born on this planet.

4. the answer is coming soon ...

[Robin.]

Hello Agynes. Thank you for your last post. I still would like to know your answer to the final question. This is of interest to us all here at LU.

Would you also write a few lines on how this liberation has changed your life? How do you feel now when you identify yourself with the world, compared to how you were feeling before we began?


Much love. Robin.

[CreatriX]

Before, my understanding was that I am NOT my ego, I only HAVE an ego (in order to be able to function in this world, but not to be taken too seriously). And following a spiritual path means that I am working on my ego to make it 'smaller' and hopefully it will disappear or die one day. But this is a dualistic view.

Since realizing that the "I" is not the subject, life does not seem to be hard anymore, because there is no "I",
no attachment and no ownership. There is no need to fix "my life" and no need to control how is it going.
Agynes can finally RELAX and she does not have to wait for it until the end of her life ! Great !
This change is like when a linear/horizontal movement turns into a vertical where life is flowing in a different, new dimension which has just opened. It has been always there, I only did not see it before - I was blind or asleep.

4. How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no separate entity ‘me’?

Well... the bad news is that 'there is no you '... and the good news is that 'there is no you'...
Why ? And how is it possible that the self is an illusion created by the mind/thoughts ?

First I would shortly explain what is the direct pointing method. Let's get Real !
Here we are not focusing on 'who I am' but on 'who I am NOT'.
It is like: not me trying to reach or find God (which is impossible, because in reality there's no me)
but to humble or erase my-self, so IT can be found. It Happens. Magick happens.

The DP method is about finding out if our beliefs represent truth ?
It only requires honestly looking inward, examining our thoughts, sensations, what they are, how they function, what is the relationship between them and the body. We have to look deep and see what is behind the self ?
We find Nothing .... What is at the same time Everything.... Freedom.... Salvation... End of suffering.
It is about leaving behind false beliefs and recognizing the simple Truth that there is no self.
So, at the end we realize by directly seeing that 'me' is nothing but a thought about 'me'.
(This was my AHA moment.) And this is it !

From people with christian background I would ask first what is their interpretation of Jesus's teaching ;
He said that if we want to follow him, we have to 'loose ourselves'.
What is a self and why is it important to 'loose' it ? [it is preventing us from seeing Oneness]
And what does it mean 'the Truth will set us free' ? To free from what ? [our misleading mind/thoughts],
and how ? [by looking at them and realizing that they create illusion].

In my understanding the "I" thought is what the Bible calls original sin.
Realizing no-self means regaining back the (seemingly) lost innocence by falling into duality.
And what is a selfless action? It only happens - there's no ego involved in it - there is nobody doing it.