theskipz

[theskipz]

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

I am :-)

[vinceschubert]

I am :-)

i know what you mean, but they would be puzzled.
Explain it like you would to a 12 year old. Be a little verbose.

[theskipz]

i know what you mean, but they would be puzzled.
Explain it like you would to a 12 year old. Be a little verbose.

I didn't mean like Nisargadatta "I AM". When I saw this question, I just laughed because I realised the dialogue in this thread is describing the illusion to a curious someone, reading it somewhere.

Granted, perhaps the likelihood of someone stumbling past this website who has never heard about the illusion before is very low.

So, as requested:

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?

In many instances, I wouldn't. For instance, this subject may not even arise between my current partner and I. And that doesn't mean we don't have a great relationship. The main reason being if she has not heard about it (which I don't know) the curiosity will not be there.

Assuming somebody has just heard about this illusion and is curious about it, or is displaying curiosity surrounding the subject, I would perhaps firstly ask questions of them. Probably, as basic as possible. E.g. "Where do you start?" "Where do you finish?" "Who are you?" From here whatever description may arise.

Hypothetically speaking, imagining someone in front of me now.....

I'd ask them to look at or imagine a friend of theirs. Then I'd ask what beliefs, traits, nuances etc... they see in their friend. Then, I'd ask what they think the source of those beliefs, traits, nuances etc... is. Then I'd ask if these beliefs, traits, nuances etc... change, regress or intensify with this person over time. Then I'd point out that if that person says "I have this, I am this, I do this," and now says, "I have that, I am that, I do that," the "I" who that person thinks they are, has changed. Thus, that "I" cannot be something that is solid or pinned down...or real.

Similarly, if that person once upon a time looked outward and saw a toned muscular body and said, "I'm ripped" and now looks outward and sees a flabby body and says, "I'm fat" - all they ever were or have been is what they experienced at that time. One time there was an experience of looking and feeling fit, now there is an experience of looking and feeling flabby. So, I would ask, "who are they now? Aren't they whatever they are experiencing right at this moment, NOW? Can't that be completely different in the very next moment? Is there not merely a an image that you recognise and then label "friend" in your experience."

From here, if we agree that everything is changing and is only what is experienced in any one moment. I would say that if the "I" can not eternally be linked to any one of these things that we have established are constantly changing, and is subsequently linked to nothing for one moment; it cannot exist on its own, because there are no gaps in experience, there is no edge to experience, thus the "I" must by definition disappear. Then all that is left is the NOW experience, being experienced...by no "I"

[vinceschubert]

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?

[theskipz]

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

It is such a gradual process in my experience.

Before arriving at LU "I" SO wanted an earth shattering, permanent "enlightenment". To quote a favourite movie, "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony".

The accuracy of the fruit falling from the tree when it is ripe means so much more NOW. I would have to say I am somewhere between the branch and the ground.

I still spend a ton of time in thoughtland, but there is no longer a sensation of tension and frustration associated with "knowing I'm not supposed to be there". And, when the thoughts disappear, they disappear, and when they start again, they start again.

Nothing exactly happened. The ease with which whatever happens, now happens from moment to moment is clearer and I trust the moment to deliver whatever is required a lot more.

I thought, "once I get this I'll head up into the mountains and grow a beard". Now I find greater playfullness and connection with other people occuring.

This is "exactly" what is happening. Teenie, Tiny insights every now and then.

When you say "I", what are you referring to?

A past experience that appears as a thought.

The meatsack that can be used to carry out whatever need be carried out by whatever it is that carries things out.

[vinceschubert]

7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

8) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?

9) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening

[theskipz]

Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

There is only experience. An experiencer experiencing implies separation, of which there is none. Experience cannot identify an experiencer and there is no experiencer in reality to experience.

Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

The body is all part of experience, one does not arise without the other.

[theskipz]

What did you experience at the moment you awoke?

A little bit of chuckling.

That there is no one looking out of the body asI have imagined for so long.

Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening

I'm quite sure I've touched on this subject a fair amount over recent posts, but for the sake of formality I can say that there has been a significant reduction in the number of "to do's" and "shoulds" and "if's". There has definitely been a strong pull into the beauty and depth available in the present moment and additional enjoyment from the fact that at the same time there is nothing "I" have to do in it other than enjoy the show.

Still a lot of thinking, but more accurately a kind of 30 year debrief. The sort of thoughts that have been arising have been quite enjoyable to observe. This is in stark contrast to the feelings that result from the thoughts that arise pre-gate.

All in all, very gradual, subtle changes to experience. A fair amount less effort and a fair amount more child like outlook.

'nuff said.

[vinceschubert]

Ok Paul, i need to get 3 others to confirm that you have passed through the gateless gate, then you will be invited to join a Facebook group where 'gatecrashers' support each other.
There are many new 'skills' to be considered as you are entering a whole new world now.
Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in Unleashed, so "friend" me on Facebook and i will invite you to join.(when confirmation occurs)
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert

and a small doc worth reading here; http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf
and a great video here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E

love


vince

[theskipz]

Hi Vince,

Thanks for showing where liberation starts and helping recognise the illusion of an I.

;-)

I cannot believe how quickly this place/method and you drill down and reveal the source of the 'problem'.

Paul

[vinceschubert]

Hi Paul, yes, some are quick, some are not.
We have the confirmations, so friend me on Facebook and you will be invited to some groups where 'deepening' occurs.
Perhaps you will 'pay it forward' by guiding when you settle a bit.

vince