Bill - Ready to start

[Krm]

Thank you Bill

Your identification helps a lot. I have got into a bit of a place of pushing and not relaxing and will take your advice about relaxing.

I sat today for a long time, just allowing things to be and came across a lot of resistance to some internal pushing that I seem to have slipped into doing over the last day or so. It is a pattern of mine to try hard and to be driven at times, especially with seeking. When I sat with what was coming up, there was a fair amount of resistance and seeing of the pushing and a need to lay off that for a while. I can see that part of me wants to keep pushing, no matter how other parts feel, but that would not be good.

I know there is a way to allow things to be, without the harshness and a lot of the time, that is what happens, but somehow, maybe because of recent events and feelings, this has come up for me now. I am totally committed to seeing the truth, but don't want to be too harsh, as it seems counter-productive and ends up with thought and struggle.

Is there any other possibility for the present moment than what actually is here?
Only the mind produces objections to what is.
When these objections fall away, what is left?

Reading the above helps, as it means that even the struggle is ok. What is currently happening is what is left.

There is a of appreciation here for your help in this

Kathy

[Bill]

Kathy. Good idea. Just relax and let all of it sink in and just be.
It's ok to take a mini-break here if you'd like.
You've really been through a lot here lately with your friend, and the holidays.
Just take a day or two to let things be.... no pushing. No have-to's.
OK?

Here's some casual suggestions... Only if you feel like it
Nothing too heavy.

1) Watch the Laurent video again... at your leisure
http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

2) Leisurely read any of the material you have on have concerning no-self.

3) Look at this koan once in a while

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

Will look for you when you're ready.

[Krm]

Thanks Bill,

I will do that and post again as soon as I feel better. There were other things going on too, with family illness, so a mini break is welcome.

All the best and will be in contact soon

Kathy

[Krm]

Hello Bill

I am back, have been through a few days with lots of grief about my friend and other feelings. I have watched the video again and considered the koan. I have not done much reading, but found the lines below, which are quite apt for me right now.

Fear comes, in some cases even terror.
It feels that death is here—the death of the old life.
The death of the illusion.
Hesitation comes.
Then the decision: turn back to the familiar or forward into the unknown?
The decision comes.
Ready, vigilant and alive, you are there—at the Gate.

Fear and resistance are quite present with me at the moment. When I sit quietly, I come up against a part that is very fearful and feels pushed by me, especially when I want to start reading materials etc. If it had a voice it would say it is frightened of being forced, it does not know what will happen and is scared of the seeking parts pushing it too much. I do not honestly know if this is connected with the quote above, or more generally with my current situation.

I cannot see a self behind it, and have a clear view that there is something else that sees this part and that it cannot be me. A sense comes up that I need to allow this part and to listen to it, rather than push past it, or ignore it, as I would usually do. There is a belief that it is protecting me, and it probably has done in the past. The fear is about being out of control.

However, there is the strong desire to know the truth as well, and that is stronger. Maybe there is a way to allow all of this to be.

I have been looking, and cannot find a separate self.

My decision is to go forward into the unknown

Thanks

Kathy

[Bill]

Hi Kathy,

Glad you're back. It's OK to take a bit of a break as I know its helped some...

A thing I noticed in your writing, from the very start is that you have referred
to 'this part' of you and 'this other part' of you several times.
First, is there really a you??
and, are there really 'parts' of a 'you'?
Or are there just thoughts, everchanging and always present that feel like 'parts'?
LOOK at this.

About the fear.
Allow it to come without resistance if you can. Relax and when it starts to come,
let it come up to be looked at.
Sit with it and see that it is there to protect 'you'.
Is there a you that needs protecting, really?
Look past the fear and see if there's anything real..

Let me know what you find.

[Krm]

Hello Bill

You mention the parts. My experience of this is that they are not parts of a me, but that there is stuff that is more than just thought, it feels as if it is made up of feeling, conditioning, physical sensation and thought. This is what I wanted to convey. In a way, speaking of these things as separate seems to loosen the identification for me if that makes sense, as then I realise that these thoughts and feelings are not who I am.

Regarding the fear, I have sat with this and allowed it to be. That has been good, it helps it to dissolve when I allow it to be there. I have not found a me that needs protecting.

I have not found a me at all, even though I keep looking. It is strange, because in the last few days, if there have been slightly stressful situations, there seems to be a seeing and less attachment because there is now a subtle knowing that there is no me to worry. Writing this I do not feel as if there has been the key turning moment you, and others speak about, but there seems to be a wearing away of the belief in a separate self.

The looking is becoming a habit, although I am busy and forget a lot at work. Even so, I often look and when I do I see there is no I. I feel that there is still some residual resistance and belief in an I, but it is lessening. As I write this I can feel resistance come up, something like "Ok not so fast...don't forget me!", but at the same time, thoughts are more relaxed, because if there is no me, or even the possibility of no me, then it must all be ok.

Kathy

[Bill]

Hi Kathy,

See that what you are looking for, searching for is here, right now.
Its always been here. We just haven't noticed it.
LOOK. truly LOOK.
This moment, right now, is the one you've wanted your whole life.
There's nothing, absolutely nothing that needs to be changed
either on the inside, or your outer circumstances.

The brain says NO. NO. It can't be this simple. Its got to be different than this, more flashy,
greater insight, more bliss.... and on and on and on.
So we overlook this precious moment in hopes of a better one
Of course this is off in the future. The one that never comes...
See this delusion.
It has to be seen.

When you see it, you can just relax and know that it is this moment that is the one.
Just ordinary everyday life as it is. We don't have to hope for something better.
The seeking can stop. We can put all the books away. No more teachers are needed either.
There's nothing to learn really. We can't really lose this either because whatever occurs on the
inside or outside, it is always still this.
We just have to LOOK again to realize.
Just LOOK.

[Krm]

So are you saying that this is it? My mind is bewildered and, as you say, wants something more, but there is also a kind of peace.

In the Liberation Unleashed videos I watched, people speak of this changing their lives. I suppose this is due to things like not needing to protect an illusory self. Is that the case? Does this settle and grow? What if I am fooling myself? All of these questions come from my mind. Can I ask how this knowledge has affected your life?

Even writing this, I can see that it is thought.

What now? Shall I just keep looking. Have I seen the truth? More thought I think.

Thank you very much for your time and input.

[Bill]

Kathy - tell me what you are expecting, other than THIS?

Get all of it out here now if you can..... all the thoughts, feelings, wants of
what you are thinking is going to happen, should happen, supposed to happen.....

I will ask you your questions.
(I know, it's not fair!)
What now? Should you keep looking?
Have you see the 'truth'?
Will this change your life?
Are you just fooling yourself?

[Krm]

Bill

I think I have slipped back into having high expectations, partly from habit and years of spiritual reading and partly from hearing others talk about peace, happiness etc on here.

I looked back at my early posts where I said

I think that seeing the truth may help me to appreciate the ordinary more, but also allow life to flow more, whatever happens.

I had gone from this simple expectation to thinking a bigger shift should have taken place. There is something that would like that, as I do know of people who have had a sudden large shift and then felt bliss and God's presence etc etc. I have a deep longing to feel at home and would like that. I want to be free, or at least see the truth about reality. I want to be at peace.

When I saw, the other day, I did feel freer and I did feel different, in a simple and peaceful way, then after some hours, my thoughts came in with the expectations and doubt again. Is that all that keeps me from the peace? It must be so, but it feels as if the thoughts are the reality.

The questions.....Ok fair enough, I thought you would do something like that! Here goes with the answers.

What now? Should you keep looking?

Yes, but not in a seeking sense, more in a being present sense and seeing what is.

Have you see the 'truth'?

Yes, but thoughts are not sure. Right now, thoughts seem to be believed more than a couple of days ago.

Will this change your life?

Yes, it already has. I like the Santa Claus analogy, but this is not quite correct in this case. I now know on one level that there is no me, but as I said thought comes in. I think it was different with Santa Claus, once I knew he wasn't real I didn't experience thoughts telling me maybe he really was out there somewhere with the reindeer. When I saw, the other day, I knew that everthing was different, but still the same. Different in that I would not have to protect an I, or worry about whether I got what I needed etc. That felt peaceful.

Are you just fooling yourself?

No, I wasn't, there was a genuine seeing and the knowledge of what was seen is still here, just clouded over with thought and long-standing belief

Typing this, there is again a realisation of no self, there are also thoughts saying "you are fooling yourself". There is fear that I will think I have got "it" but then I will miss the real "it". I will sit with this and look beyond and see what is there.

I know that what I saw and know was real, but the thoughts and feelings do not seem to have caught up and still want to go back into the same habitual tracks.

Thank you
Kathy

[Krm]

Bill

An update, after writing the above yesterday, I had another long time of seeing clearly, right up until I slept. This morning there is an appearance of losing that understanding a bit, even though there is still the knowledge of it. Writing seems to help a lot and the questions too. Really, if I am honest I now know that there is no me, but my mind hasn't got there yet.

This morning there was fear, so I sat with it and saw it was about the unknown and losing its control. I looked beyond and still could not find anything.

I am going to do some more reading and look at the koan again.

My mind's problem with some of the reading is that it starts to compare - "oh that person had a different experience, I didn't have that, did I really see?" and so on and so on........tricky mind

Thank you very much for all the pointing!

[Bill]

Kathy,

Nothing is going to change.
I can see you're expecting a 'state' of awakening.
That things will be somehow different.
This is not my experience
Or many others experience either.
Clarity yes, but a special feeling or knowing all the time..... No.
It's like we wake up to what's been here all the time.

We want to LOOK for this in normal everyday consciousness.
Just plain old normal, like when you're reading these words.
Like right here and now normal.
Awake, aware. This moment.

Its not a state, or a condition.
Its simply seeing the illusion of the I.
That it is not real. That it can't be found in reality.
Check it out....When you look out of your own eyes, no I can be found.
Its only a thought. Created by the mind.
It is so much in front of our noses, we can't see it easily.
But it is there to be seen.

Its perfectly normal all the doubting and comparing you're doing.

Does the koan make sense to you now?
What does it mean for you?

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

[Krm]

So Bill, I do see this. I see that it is just this. I think I knew that it was only this (apart from the thoughts coming in), but I did have an expectation that I would be aware of it most of the time. I see this is not true. I can clearly see that there is no I. Even though a lot of the time there is a semblance of an I everyday life, the basic belief has been seen through. How strange.

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

Yes, it clicks. My honest reality right now is that I have seen that there is no I, but that it is the thoughts that seem to be able to catch me, those doubting thoughts. I think it will take a bit of time for the mind to accept, but I do see.

Thank you

Kathy

[Bill]

Hi Kathy,

Tell me what it is like to see this.

What are all the expectations you've had about this?

Who is it that this is happening to?

Be well
Bill

[Krm]

hi Bill

It feels open, less crowded, but very ordinary

I had the usual expectations, although tempered by hearing lots about how ordinary it was. Of course I had expectations of being a bit special and different, maybe I would get a quiet wisdom and people would notice an extra little glint in my eyes.......

This is where it gets a bit paradoxical, because the actual experience here is that there is still an appearance of a me, but that it is not so believed in any more. Belief seems to be dropping away and the thoughts that say I am definitely a person are a not so believed. There is an underlying knowledge, separate from thought, that there is no me. I have not had a road to Damascus moment, rather this is ordinary, but I feel this will continue to open.

However, even writing this, doubting thought comes in. I can allow this and see it as the thought that has protected me all these years and respect it without believing it. Such a dense thicket of thought, but light there too now and where there seemed to be an inpenetrable walll, I can see it is not really so.

I would like to thank you for all of the time and guidance and support. It is very much appreciated.

Kathy