Would like help to investigate deeper

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Pete,

Yep, it washed through..
I just noticed a transition or change in focus from seer to no seer. Seems when looking for the I, that a me comes into focus that is looking, the I can be felt clearly as some thing looking. This wasn't easy but when finally in DE just hearing was noticed with no hearer, then back to a sound and a hearer.
So I think this is where frustration comes up as when in the 'I' mode and searching it is unpleasant. I'm guessing that it will gradually settle down and I-mode wont be a problem? This is kinda weird right now, the searching to root out a me keeps coming up, but it's the me that is searching. I know (or there is a knowing here) that 'I' just needs to give up. I suppose the search needs to be completely exhausted first. (:

Today, a book from Alan Watts appeared on the shelf of the local secondhand bookshop. :) On page 15, he wrote: "The mind grows thoughts as the field grows grass. If I think about thoughts, as if there were some "I", some thinker watching them from outside, there arises the infinite regression of thinking about thinking etc, because this "I" is itself a thought, and thoughts, like trees, grow of themselves....It is, thus, a mistake to try to get rid of thoughts, for who will push them out? But when thoughts leave themselves alone the mind cleans up."


The brain is just used to playing I-mode. It happens. The difference here is that it's seen to not be real. Sure the thought is real, but the reality of which is speaks is not. So thoughts show up to no-one.

The search exhausts itself, probably out of boredom LOL :) or that it's seen that the search is to see there is no searcher. Not much point to that. It's like the snake eating it's own tail.

Sometimes there's a knowing that, oh, I've been going round and round in circles and never really seen the spot right here and now.

Speak soon,
John

[Pete]

Thanks John.
"infinite regression of thinking about thinking", or as I have expressed it as 'mind spinning' and like you said 'around in circles'.
There is desire here to stay in here/now DE as much as possible.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Pete,

Thanks John.
"infinite regression of thinking about thinking", or as I have expressed it as 'mind spinning' and like you said 'around in circles'.
There is desire here to stay in here/now DE as much as possible.

Good. Direct experience is the ground and brings it home. Just sitting, breathing, aware. The old character gone, and in it's place, a new kind of existence. Of course, everyone still calls you "Pete" :) and it's good to settle and ground in the basic goodness of life in the smallest details.

Take it light and easy, nothing special.

And a Happy New Year!
John

[Pete]

Thank you John.
I happened to watch this video last night by Scott Kiloby http://youtu.be/u_Z8exl5pJ8. This method is helpful to me when a strong I-thought comes up to transition into DE and reinforce that it is only a thought/feeling.

Best,
Pete

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Pete,

Thank you John.
I happened to watch this video last night by Scott Kiloby http://youtu.be/u_Z8exl5pJ8. This method is helpful to me when a strong I-thought comes up to transition into DE and reinforce that it is only a thought/feeling.

Best,
Pete

So what's happening? An I-thought/feeling shows up and "you feel like 'Pete' again"? Is that it?

Bring in the strongest I-thought imaginable. See it start and end. Bring in a weak I-thought. See it start and end. Can what you are be bounded by a thought? Try.

Best wishes,
John

[Pete]

Hi John,

So what's happening? An I-thought/feeling shows up and "you feel like 'Pete' again"? Is that it?

Bring in the strongest I-thought imaginable. See it start and end. Bring in a weak I-thought. See it start and end. Can what you are be bounded by a thought? Try.

Ok, looking at I-thoughts last night and today, I'm enjoying this approach as opposed to recently getting stuck in 'the mind'. Pulled up a strong I-thought and looked for the I in thoughts, sensations, etc. The looking is being done by awareness, I suppose that's obvious as a thought cannot BE looking (but thought could filter the way awareness is looking). I must be awareness that is 'looking'... really all that is happening is awareness is focused on certain sensations or thoughts. Some sensations are strong and pull up a subject/object thought, some are not so strong. So awareness that I am, can focus on a 'thought' that says it is a 'me'... but that is all that is happening, focusing on a me-thought and saying it is real.
So I (as pure capacity) am always aware naturally (no effort) and as 'things' happen, I have the capacity to focus and believe.. kinda narrow my focus to become a thing. It's all JUST thoughts and sensations (infinitely complex and incredibly 'real' of course) which come and go in my presence/awareness. This is what's coming up right now, when I stop and 'think about it' another 'me-typing-this' thought arises.. but still within my presence and awareness. Cool stuff.
A bit of 'blasphemy' type thoughts arise here to... who do I think I am and haven't you gone a bit too far here! :). This is more stuff arising in my awareness.
I say 'my awareness' because it feels very intimate, like what I am. At the same time I know there is no object 'me' that 'has awareness'. That's probably another hurdle there, thinking that awareness is separate from ME (what I am) which causes a search for it OUT THERE. There's thoughts that say it can't be me because that is the problem, believing in a me!! Ahh, the knot continues to unravel as we go..
I read/heard this before and comes up now.. What I'm looking for IS what I'm looking from (something like that).
Sorry, just typing out what's coming up, may be a bit rambling.

Anyhow, thanks for being here. I suppose I'm thanking 'hereness' for being..:) I would say thanking myself, but it sure seems like there is an other there that is helping me, ha, another belief to look at! :)

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hey Pete,

Hi John,

So what's happening? An I-thought/feeling shows up and "you feel like 'Pete' again"? Is that it?

Bring in the strongest I-thought imaginable. See it start and end. Bring in a weak I-thought. See it start and end. Can what you are be bounded by a thought? Try.

Ok, looking at I-thoughts last night and today, I'm enjoying this approach as opposed to recently getting stuck in 'the mind'. Pulled up a strong I-thought and looked for the I in thoughts, sensations, etc. The looking is being done by awareness, I suppose that's obvious as a thought cannot BE looking (but thought could filter the way awareness is looking). I must be awareness that is 'looking'... really all that is happening is awareness is focused on certain sensations or thoughts. Some sensations are strong and pull up a subject/object thought, some are not so strong. So awareness that I am, can focus on a 'thought' that says it is a 'me'... but that is all that is happening, focusing on a me-thought and saying it is real.

Awareness is quite astounding and inscrutable. Everything seems to show up amidst it, it seems to permeate everything and somehow, this is known. There are no words for this effortlessly simple affair.

So I (as pure capacity) am always aware naturally (no effort) and as 'things' happen, I have the capacity to focus and believe.. kinda narrow my focus to become a thing. It's all JUST thoughts and sensations (infinitely complex and incredibly 'real' of course) which come and go in my presence/awareness. This is what's coming up right now, when I stop and 'think about it' another 'me-typing-this' thought arises.. but still within my presence and awareness. Cool stuff.

Just arising and falling in the presence of awareness, yep.

A bit of 'blasphemy' type thoughts arise here to... who do I think I am and haven't you gone a bit too far here! :). This is more stuff arising in my awareness.

LOL :)

I say 'my awareness' because it feels very intimate, like what I am. At the same time I know there is no object 'me' that 'has awareness'. That's probably another hurdle there, thinking that awareness is separate from ME (what I am) which causes a search for it OUT THERE. There's thoughts that say it can't be me because that is the problem, believing in a me!! Ahh, the knot continues to unravel as we go..
I read/heard this before and comes up now.. What I'm looking for IS what I'm looking from (something like that).

Nice. Awareness is beyond personal and impersonal. Those are words from the I-story anyway.

Sorry, just typing out what's coming up, may be a bit rambling.

Anyhow, thanks for being here. I suppose I'm thanking 'hereness' for being..:) I would say thanking myself, but it sure seems like there is an other there that is helping me, ha, another belief to look at! :)

Just because we're not here, don't mean we can't pretend. :)

Is there anything in experience that isn't immersed in spacious awareness?

With best wishes,
John

[Pete]

Hi John,
Just experiencing happening here, ever changing, no desire to describe at the moment.
Happy New Year,
Pete

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Pete,

Hi John,
Just experiencing happening here, ever changing, no desire to describe at the moment.
Happy New Year,
Pete

Nice. :)

Has it been seen 100% that there is no separate self called "Pete" running the show?

WIth best wishes,
Johh

[Pete]

Hi John,
Yes, 100% certain that there is no individual entity running the show. The show arises and there can be an appearance of a me and thoughts of a me running the show, but it is known that they are just thoughts. A me is made up of thoughts which cannot be what I am.
THIS is completely indescribable (or as you said, inscrutable)..

Thanks for all your help John.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hey Pete,

Hi John,
Yes, 100% certain that there is no individual entity running the show. The show arises and there can be an appearance of a me and thoughts of a me running the show, but it is known that they are just thoughts. A me is made up of thoughts which cannot be what I am.
THIS is completely indescribable (or as you said, inscrutable)..

Thanks for all your help John.

As Frank Sinatra might sing, "Indescribable...that's what you are..." LOL :)

You'll enjoy these questions...just write what shows up, you might find them helpful for clarifying...

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.


3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.


4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.


5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?


6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?


7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?


8) Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?


9) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?


10) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening.

WIth best wishes,
John

[Pete]

Hi John,
Yes, it was good to go through the questions.. thanks again.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

There is a 'me' that can appear in shape and form, in experience, just like with any other shape or form experienced. Every thing is part of unified experiencing, so nothing separate from that.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

The separate self is an experience in thought/sensation, believed in as a reference point looking out on the world. It can start at any time, how it works I have NO IDEA :).

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

It feels natural, the 'separate self' is seen like any other form/experience. There is just feeling, seeing, hearing, sensing happening, no separate entity at the center of it. There is just This ongoing moment. This (Life/Existence/etc) really can't be described.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

I might say that there is no such thing as a 'person', that it is a description or story based on history/experiences and character traits.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

It has been gradual over many years, there has been a desire for truth no matter what that meant. Referring back to direct experience and letting go of labeling seem to be key.

6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?

The sensing/knowing 'here'... I really don't know what is being referred to, it is an expression of this mystery. "I am typing this"- could also be said "typing is happening here", there is no need for an "I".

7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

Only experiencing, there is no need for an experiencer.

8) Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

The body is only known through sensation, made up of images and sensations. There is only experience so the body belongs to or is part of experience.

9) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?

It doesn't feel like "I" awoke, more like awakeness has always been and the belief in a separate entity has been seen. The experience is sort of like sinking deeper into experiencing and letting go of labeling. This is a seeing of what is, but at the same time realizing that it is beyond any description.

10) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening.

No earth shattering experience, just a gradual appreciation for the mystery. Experiencing happens, noticing thoughts, sensations, beliefs. It can be intense at times but is seen that all is allowed and that life/awareness is all of it, every moment unique and fresh, nothing separate. Trying to figure it out has subsided allowing for an enjoyment of the moment.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Thanks Pete! Will ask the other guides to take a look and they may come back with additional comments, questions etc.

All the best!
John

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Pete,

Have sent you a Private Message (PM) so if you could check when you get a moment. :)

With best wishes,
John