I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

[cosmiK]

Zena,

Wonderful.

Let's tackle a few angles here.

When you speak of "being"... is this being personal?
is it a VERB or a NOUN?

is "Awareness" = "I"/"me" ?

Is anything in Experiencing, in Life, personal?

is there a "you" or "I" at all? anywhere? in any form? can there ever be?

with Love.

[zenagazelle]

When you speak of "being"... is this being personal?
is it a VERB or a NOUN?

are you referring to this? ' If feels like surrendering and is not of the mind, it happens all at once in the totality of my being.' beingness...living. pure awareness living through me. verb.

is "Awareness" = "I"/"me" ?

there is no i or me in Awareness. no separation. at the same time Awareness knows Itself through 'me'

Is anything in Experiencing, in Life, personal?

thoughts are not personal, images are not personal, sensations are not personal, body is not personal--nothing in Experiencing is personal---there is no 'mine' or 'my'--I don't want anything. Life lives itself through an impersonal what ever you want to call 'this' or 'here'. Thought tries to find personal experiencing/meaning...stories. Memories are brought up as 'real.' Images with no self there.
the individual being (noun) is an illusion, yet Awareness or Life is lived through this one who has no identity and is part of Oneness. It can happen..
?

is there a "you" or "I" at all? anywhere? in any form? can there ever be?

An I or you will identify, label and want. This i or you is an illusion of the mind/conditioning. was there ever an I or you when i was an infant or toddler? No. Anywhere, in any form? No. No, there can never be such.

[cosmiK]

Maria,

Wonderful :)

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of self? or the illusion of separation?

Are you ready for the Final Questions?

w Love.

[zenagazelle]

No doubts! Yes, send those questions...thank you so much dear Cosmik.

[cosmiK]

:)

Please answer in detail, each question, honestly and earnestly, and refer to direct experience. If the questions requires analysis and speculation, start with direct experience, here and now first, then let thoughts flow.


1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Will there ever be?


1.5) When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.



3) How does it FEEL to see this? describe in detail.



4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.



5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?



6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key difference?



7) in what ways has this changed your life? what impact will this have on your life?


7.5) When you look at people you know, family, friends.. do you see "others"? or is there a different way you describe what is experienced? describe in your own words from experience.



8) what if i told you LU was a persuasion cult and we have just got you to believe that "there is no self". How would you respond?



9) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective, and what was not so effective, and why?

[zenagazelle]

I will need until tomorrow to complete this! Thank you!
btw, I didn't mention that during those 3 days of not being online tremendous doubts came up which led to a deeper looking. Also the

[zenagazelle]

Just to let you know I will need until tomorrow to complete these questions! Thank you!
btw, I didn't mention that during those 3 days of not being online tremendous doubts came up which led to a deeper looking. Also the mind was working overtime :)) to distract, along with 'stuff coming up' with the story of family members...then something happened quite spontaneously, which I will speak of when I answer the questions (4-7.)

take care Cosmik~
M

[zenagazelle]

1.Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Will there ever be?

No, a ‘me’, ‘you’ or ‘I’ cannot be found anywhere. Mind is shocked at this, but when living in dE and Looking never shows a separate me, you or I in any shape or form. there was never a me. No, there cannot ever be a me. There is nobody here, there never was.

1.5) When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?

The ‘I Am’…the perceiver that sees what is being perceived.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

The illusion of a separate self is the ego/mind formation; thoughts, labels, images and sensations that come to create a sense of separation, as if there is an ‘I’ doing. A doer that thinks and controls. This separation is the same as suffering. Thoughts create doing (beliefs form.) It starts around age 2- 3 as a child learns words and labeling from the parents and the world. The child is programmed in the world of appearances and begins to see itself as a separate Me—separate from objects/others. Instead of spontaneously taking actions, following urges—instead of beingness, wonder and curiosity—the child learns how to think, do and control according to the ego/mind illusion. Suffering comes from living in this way as a separate self, and often a child senses this as ‘something is wrong.’ A story is then being written that the child begins to believe is truth. This is part of being in a body/mind. Labels become truth and the life becomes personal. Conflicts and contraction then become the tension of life. The child then believes that it can fix life, change and control with an ‘I’ doing things. ‘I must do or have…’ The pleasure and pain principle then becomes the way of living. Go towards, or go away from. Attachments form. Memories. After awhile it seems to be the normal way to live. Individuals trapped in ego/mind living in conflict and tension. Thus, our world as it appears to be.



3) How does it FEEL to see this? describe in detail.

It feels joyful, freeing, peaceful. It is a seeing through everything, and a knowing that this “Isness” has always been there. It feels so obvious. There is no wanting. There is nothing to fix. It was never about getting at anything. More a falling away or loss of an illusory self that was thought to be real. Self falling away and with it a kind of energetic heart opening but it is not body/mind located, just feels that way—it is energetically felt as openness, wonder, laughter, joy. There is a joy in not knowing or wanting. A Seeing from the ‘inside’ –a sort of looking out of awareness, as is. No separation or dividing lines between an illusory inner and outer. There is no gain, but a loss that feels so natural and delicious. (love that word.) a loss of the contraction and tension. An expansion that has always been there. Stillness, quiet mind, but even if mind is not quiet there is stillness or staying in Isness. No separation or dividing lines. Aliveness is felt to be beingness. Flowing life. Laughter. Noticing the delightfulness of life…the awesome intelligence of Life Itself. Its mind blowing  Mind is in shock. Some spacey-ness. Everthing is “WOW!” Natural outflowing and inflowing--joy (did I say that already?)



4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

“it is the dropping away of a ‘doer’ and knowing that there is no ‘you’ that has control over anything. Can you remember times in your life where you finally just let go of control and noticed that life just brought you everything in its own perfect timing?” “What did that feel like?” “Do you remember being a small child and having no sense of separation—just wonder, awe and curiosity?” or “Can you see this in the babies and small children you know? Have you ever watched them living life?”



5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

I am not remembering the last little bit that pushed me over—just that there was a lot of suffering. I was looking, and then relaxing the effort. I was resisting for a time, and then something loosened, relaxed. Those 3 days spent in ‘resistance” when I was offline was a kind of point of no return, where it was felt that all thoughts and effort and ‘reaching for’ were culminating in great suffering, and then there was just this ‘falling’ or backwards motion when I was sitting by the creek one day. My body just layed itself down in the dead grasses and there was a sigh, and a surrendering, tears. What is left if I let go? Nothing was there. Blankness of mind, staring at sky. Words came up, “I don’t want anything” Then after awhile I got up and walked and I was walking very slowly and there were no thoughts—a sort of spacey-ness, just walking. An is-ness, stillness—no efforting to be here now, I was the now. Then after this walking stayed a sense of peace, joy and wonder.Happiness felt, no sense of contraction. A lot of laughter. “Oh my, this is so simple and It’s always been here. Direct knowing of this. No intellectualizing, just being. Everything was just experience in that moment. Nothing felt personal. Time stopped. Awareness as expansion, oneness. Life just happening without thinking. “this is it?” was a thought. What a farce I have been in! Shock. Amazement. It was a collapsing into this effortless being--moving about but not observing.



6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key difference?

Before seeing there was contraction, doing, effort, trying, tension. At ‘moment’ of seeing there is expansion, no ‘doer’, no self, total relaxing, out-breath, peace. After seeing there is a steady and growing peace, joy in not doing or wanting. Thoughts and constriction are still rising up, but there is no taking of them seriously. Attachment is seen through and thoughts are dropped, but that attachment or stickiness is short –lived. Emotional reactions are just dropped. Even if there is a reactivity going on, it is seen as part of life. Something watches the attention go about or the reactivity. Sitting in that place.
There is a deepening of the end of suffering (key difference.) Less of an urge to know or figure out. Urges come and go but are just seen fleetingly as energy arising and floating away.



7) in what ways has this changed your life? what impact will this have on your life?

Less and less is bothering me. Less and less judgment or attachments. Life goes on much in the way it was, but there is a different way of seeing life that has to do with ‘I Am Life.’ The response to life is open and engaging. Trusting life and what comes, life feels like an incredible mystery and often I feel how lucky it is to be in the flow of life, and then realizing it was always there! Awesome indeed! I am open to life as it is and it’s showing of different dynamics. Always what comes to me is the sense of energies rising and falling, with no “I” making it personal.
Impact NOW (no future) is less suffering and more relaxation into what is. Hard to describe, but the story of victimhood is GONE. There is an ever expanding trusting in Life as it is. There is a lot more laughter and joy and a gravitation more than ever towards animals and children. The drama of the story is gone—the story of ‘so much wounding’ ‘so much awful loss’ is gone.


7.5) When you look at people you know, family, friends.. do you see "others"? or is there a different way you describe what is experienced? describe in your own words from experience.

Mostly I don’t see others—an ‘other.’ Or when I do, others are part of the play of life as I Am and there is no separation. Just something happening now. There is an impersonal-ness there. It just happened. No need to please. This is in dE. This vascillates, flip-flops at times, but awareness is always there. There can be a reaction to an 'other' but it is seen and let go of. It is like an indifference, because I am not getting caught up or taking on stories, I notice there is not a sense of behaving certain ways—yet there is this neutral type of compassion for understanding the how the stories come about and how we suffer and contract into tension and blame. I SEE this and feel this compassion and it is not a gripping emotional drama…thus the impersonal-ness of life being just as it is.




8) what if i told you LU was a persuasion cult and we have just got you to believe that "there is no self". How would you respond?

Lots of laughter! You pointed, I looked and there was no ‘persuasion’ going on. What was pointed out was what was there all along. The foggy glasses just got cleared, and Seeing happened, that’s all.!


9) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective, and what was not so effective, and why?

This is a interesting question to answer. That sense of a self wanting more verbage, more explanations at times, is now seen as a doubting of your style. Yet there were times I did feel I needed more, and I immediately found what I needed in something Ilona said to someone else. Yet, I see I was not trusting the process either, taking things personally because I was still believing in a separate self that wants a certain style of guiding.
It is what it is. Life unfolded with you as my guide. You did your job and helped to point me to resistances, which fell away on their own. You were part of that, but it is by my own burning in Looking and Seeing that it happened. The questions you asked were very effective—like koans. Gradually the mind had nothing to do with the answers.
I really appreciate all the time you put into reading what I wrote, and into Seeing where ‘I’ was at and knowing exactly what to say and your compassion no matter what I came up with.
I can See how it is that this knowing occurs as a guide. I appreciate the pushing you did. That led to the 3 days of tremendous tension that led to the surrendering part where all of a sudden the resistance was spontaneously gone. I know there is work ahead, as the ‘flip-flopping’ is there, (but not for days and not for as long.) There is an immediate knowing/remembering that it’s just energies rising and falling! I realize I was dreaming my life story--"I am this' and that I was never this story. My original state is right here---HOME.  There is no self that is separate from consciousness, and it Just Is that is always there and always has been there. There is a knowing of this, as if this flip flopping is residual Habits coming and going. night still being when more thoughts come up, but the disturbance is much shorter lived. Constriction of the chest area still occurs, but not with attachment or getting involved in thoughts--just sensations felt. Sleep is much better. More work ahead, but I am already there…hmmm.
There is still thinking about dropping thoughts at times. “Just Drop it!” Effort is seen to be a type of aggression that strengthens the power of the thoughts.
There may be more suffering that occurs, I don’t know. Conditioning wearing itself out perhaps. But NOW in dE there is no suffering, life just is and is happening according to some Vast Intelligence that there is no desire to figure out and understand. Mind is taking the back seat more and more, and Life is just living itself, I am Life.
Asking, 'who am I when not turned towards what's next?' and experiencing this as clearing out fear. Stay in the 'I Am' and reactions are seen for what they are--untruths.
There is a satisfaction with my own Beingness and less looking about outside. More self trust, and more spaciousness with no holding of concepts or holding on of anything is happening.

[cosmiK]

Hi Maria,

Thank you for your responses. This will go to the other guides for review.

One quick clarification for you:

1.5) When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?

The ‘I Am’…the perceiver that sees what is being perceived.

Look in d.E... is there a separate perceiver that perceives? or is the 'perceiver' just another perception?
Again... is there an experience-er? or ONLY experience?

with Love.

[zenagazelle]

One quick clarification for you:

1.5) When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?

The ‘I Am’…the perceiver that sees what is being perceived.

Look in d.E... is there a separate perceiver that perceives? or is the 'perceiver' just another perception?
Again... is there an experience-er? or ONLY experience?

Wow. If you put it that way...in dE there is awareness (I AM) that perceives and this awareness is not separate from 'me', as it IS me...once, again I AM. Which in my experience, the I AM cannot be described.
And, there is only experience for sure--no experiencer, no separate self, no 'I'.

[zenagazelle]

Today I found this article on LU. It was very sobering. My subtle shift in perception is indeed just the beginning of a lot of work! In a way the article was depressing. I would like to know what Ilona has to say about this article posted on her website;
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ation.html by Ed Musika
For me, it spoke of truth and also is very Indian. I have been attracted to the Bhakti path before in my life, btw.

Thanks Cosmik

[zenagazelle]

Ooops! here is the URL again: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ation.html

It was incomplete above.

[cosmiK]

thanks for the response...

honestly Maria, do not worry too much about the article and "this just being the beginning" and being "so much more to go". Just settle in to direct seeing and don't worry too much about anything else.

be in touch soon <3

[cosmiK]

confirmed and good to go - will contact you private in a sec :)