Ready to be guided...

[cosmiK]

Hi Appicha,

Yes. Please answer all of those questions individually.

Is it Your life Appicha?

How exactly do you gain "confidence in a realization"? - please describe how you feel it will be when this happens.

What if Freedom is not something in the future when and if something changes, but a total acceptance of here, now... an intimacy with What-Is... Whatever that IS? What comes up honestly when you digest that question?

With Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya, cosmiK
your previous questions:
[quote]
it is clear that there is no "You" separate from Experience, from Life?
is it clear that in Experience, all manner of 'things' may appear to arise, but there is never separation in it?
is it clear that YOU are not the thinker of thoughts? and that "YOU" is just a thought, and that thoughts cannot think, feel, do, live, etc?
is it clear that there is no separate self that is in charge of Life, doing, acting, choosing, thinking, feeling and worrying?[quote]
Yes, it's clear there is no 'me' separate from Experience or Life and all manor of things arise without separation.
Also clear there is no 'thinker' and thoughts are fleeting and insubstantial without ability to think, feel, do etc.
There is no separate self in charge of anything!
Sorry something has gone wrong with the 'Quote ' facility...
all the best, appicha x

[shantijoe]

Hi again,
"How exactly do you gain "confidence in a realization"? - please describe how you feel it will be when this happens.

What if Freedom is not something in the future when and if something changes, but a total acceptance of here, now... an intimacy with What-Is... Whatever that IS? What comes up honestly when you digest that question?"

This process/ dialouge helps me 'gain confidence in realisation'. As described in my first post I stop investing in likes and dislikes, opinions, views etc. There is an ability to simply let things be, to come and go without interference.
"If Freedom is a total acceptance of here and now..."
What comes up is both excitement and peace, I can stop searching for answers, but... There is also a doubt, not enough confidence to simply let go and accept this....(pause)...
As I sit with this there is a reflection on this aspect of your question "an intimacy with What-Is... Whatever that IS?". This feels great because the doubt is just another sensation, a part of, and intimacy with "Whatever this is"!
Opening to this last part has a real Taste of Freedom... There was a resistance to accepting the 'wholeness of experience' warts and all- that has been the stuckness: looking for things to be 'good, painfree, Confident!

Thanks for that last part, it feels like a lock has turned, love appicha

[cosmiK]

Hey Appicha,

Let's really look at any sticking points that may be here.

As described in my first post I stop investing in likes and dislikes, opinions, views etc. There is an ability to simply let things be, to come and go without interference.

How can there be an ability to let things be, to come and go without interference... WHO or WHAT has this ability? Is there someone that has choice? If it is seen that there is no thinker of thoughts, then you must see that there is no chooser, no doer, noone with any ability of any sort. Look deeper at this.

What comes up is both excitement and peace, I can stop searching for answers, but... There is also a doubt, not enough confidence to simply let go and accept this....(pause)...
As I sit with this there is a reflection on this aspect of your question "an intimacy with What-Is... Whatever that IS?". This feels great because the doubt is just another sensation, a part of, and intimacy with "Whatever this is"!

Doubt is just a label that is superimposed on the perfect of Life.

What is there ever to doubt? :)

Opening to this last part has a real Taste of Freedom... There was a resistance to accepting the 'wholeness of experience' warts and all- that has been the stuckness: looking for things to be 'good, painfree, Confident!

Is there ever anything that could ever resist anything else?
LOOK DEEPLY... how does that work?

you are 'this'
All that arises, does so in complete Freedom.
All that appears, appears so, in complete Freedom.
All that is felt, is felt, in complete Freedom.
'this' does not reject anything,
all is 'this'
and 'this' is all,
and you are 'this'.
there is NEVER a "You" that is separate from 'this',
'this' Experience,
'this' Life,
just
'this'.


So... what next?

[shantijoe]

Hi cosmiK

How can there be an ability to let things be, to come and go without interference... WHO or WHAT has this ability? Is there someone that has choice? If it is seen that there is no thinker of thoughts, then you must see that there is no chooser, no doer, noone with any ability of any sort. Look deeper at this.

Yes, I see the contradiction you've pointed out. No 'decision maker' can be found yet it seems choices are made, even banal ones such as eating, speaking, writing. There is a sensation of puzzlement now as I look at it...
There seems a choice to reply to you, to agree to write daily- who/what/how does this come about...Stuckness, yet it's welcome as it's revealing something useful. I'll think more about this...tbc.

Doubt is just a label that is superimposed on the perfect of Life. What is there ever to doubt? :)

Yes, this is a value judgement and implies 'someone' is making it. Doubt is a name for a sensation which I think I carified later in my post so I'll move on as my post was a process- it's hard to work backwards through a process- do you see this?

Opening to this last part has a real Taste of Freedom... There was a resistance to accepting the 'wholeness of experience' warts and all- that has been the stuckness: looking for things to be 'good, painfree, Confident!

Is there ever anything that could ever resist anything else?
LOOK DEEPLY... how does that work?

I can't find anything that that resists other than thought so we have thought resisting thought, sensation resisting sensation- duh! There is some confusion here...

you are 'this'
All that arises, does so in complete Freedom.
All that appears, appears so, in complete Freedom.
All that is felt, is felt, in complete Freedom.
'this' does not reject anything,
all is 'this'
and 'this' is all,
and you are 'this'.
there is NEVER a "You" that is separate from 'this',
'this' Experience,
'this' Life,
just
'this'.So... what next?

more of this appicha, thanks cosmiK x

[cosmiK]

Hi Appicha,

'choice' and 'intention' are a sticking point and are basically another "I" hiding.

Yes, I see the contradiction you've pointed out. No 'decision maker' can be found yet it seems choices are made, even banal ones such as eating, speaking, writing. There is a sensation of puzzlement now as I look at it...
There seems a choice to reply to you, to agree to write daily- who/what/how does this come about...Stuckness, yet it's welcome as it's revealing something useful. I'll think more about this...tbc.

There SEEMS to be a choice... but in Direct Experience,

is there an actual choice?

Who makes it?

Where is the 'choice-point'?

Do some things 'just happen' and are some things 'just chosen'?

Here is something that another guide suggested about 'choice':
Ok, let's look at choice then. Is there REALLY such a thing as choice?

Take a look at direct experience and tell me whether there is even such a thing as choice, or whether "choice" is something that thought makes up about things that happen.

A thought pops up which says "I feel like a cup of coffee" and making a cup of coffee happens. Was there really a "choice" about anything?

A thought springs up which says "Should I have tea or coffee?" and a thought springs up that says "I think I would prefer coffee".

Was there a thinker of those thoughts? Was there really a choice for anybody? Was there even a choice about the thought "Should I have tea or coffee?"?

Why wasn't "Milo" offered?

What decided to offer ONLY tea or coffee as the "choices"? What had any "choice" about offering ONLY tea or coffee, and what had any choice about coffee being "chosen"?

----

I can't find anything that that resists other than thought so we have thought resisting thought, sensation resisting sensation- duh! There is some confusion here...

Good investigating... let's take this deeper.

Can a thought really resist another thought? Perhaps that are two thoughts that say opposing things like 1) "there is a self" or 2) "there is no self".

Can a sensation really resist another sensation?


Please answer each question separately so we can see where we need to continue.

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya
I'm going away for 4 days and might have inital trouble getting online but will reply asap,
thanks, appicha x

[cosmiK]

Hi Appicha,

thanks for the heads up! Have a great trip, yet keep up the investigation nonetheless. Lots of GREAT material that we have covered together here, so it should keep you busy.

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya
There is some trouble with this computer (the letter after 'F' s not workin but anyway:
You said:
"There SEEMS to be a choice... but in Direct Experience,
is there an actual choice?Who makes it?
Where is the 'choice-point'?Do some things 'just happen' and are some things 'just chosen'?"

In DE there is no choice (choice being a thought) and there can't be found 'someone who makes it. There is no choice point to be found as it was in the 'past' which is another concept. Therefore things just happen and we imply choices to them..(thought/concept)!

"Can a thought really resist another thought? " etc...
No, it can only follow another thought- that's what you're pointing out here I see.
A sensation can't resist another sensation- that would make a sensation something other. It's just a sensation in DE, thoughts distort or interpret sensations. In DE they are simple.
sorry about the g's which work sometimes with some force!
thanks, appicha x

[cosmiK]

Appicha,

Nice work. It seems you are getting clear about these sticking points, and that clarity is always apparent in Direct Experience :)

What other doubts are there about separation? about a self?

Talk to me :) I realize you are away, so respond when possible, and continue to notice d.E., as well as your absence :)

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya
yes, things are getiing clearer. I found the last questions became part of my sleeping/ dreaming last night. It's clear the mental elaborations have no part in this investiation. As you say, clarity is apparent in DE.

"What other doubts are there about separation? about a self?"

Kindly define 'separation' in this context for me. I can't find a self so am tempted to say 'no doubts' about it but we seem to be uncoverin some 'hidden views as we go along,
thanks, appicha x

[cosmiK]

Heya Appicha,

Hope your trip is going well :)

As you say, clarity is apparent in DE

D.E. is the most important tool, even after Awakening, and till the very end :) I can not stress this enough :)

Kindly define 'separation' in this context for me.

Sure. So... in Experience, here and now, in Life, in 'this'...

is there separation?

so... is there a 'body' that is separate from 'screen'? or is there just Experience and thought labelling it "body' and 'chair'?

is there a world 'in here' and a world 'out there'? If so... LOOK Deeply at this dividing line and describe it.

does Experience come from the body?
or does the 'body' appear as part of Experience?
and if it appears as part of Experience, are these separate parts of Experience?
or is there just Experience, and thoughts that conceptually separate and divide them?

Hope that helps clear up what is meant by separation. Take time and please answer each question individually.

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya
the trip is going well thanks. It's raining a lot here in the UK (even floods). I notice 'it's raining' but not 'who's raining'. Rain has causes and results but I simply accept it as part of the flow of events. That is true of myself so I'm lookin at this self as rain today.

so... is there a 'body' that is separate from 'screen'? or is there just Experience and thought labelling it "body' and 'chair'?

In DE the computer is warm to the touch like hand. It is just thought labeling it 'out there'. I can't find the boundry between my ass and the chair seat but thought tries to find one.

is there a world 'in here' and a world 'out there'? If so... LOOK Deeply at this dividing line and describe it.

At first it seems like separate worlds but the 'in here' world is just a flow of thoughts. Is there a dividing line between thought and rain- then I notice I can't hear the rain. It wasn't even actually raining- it was sound which thought labeled 'rain' so there is no real dividing line ,only a thought.

does Experience come from the body?
or does the 'body' appear as part of Experience?
and if it appears as part of Experience, are these separate parts of Experience?
or is there just Experience, and thoughts that conceptually separate and divide them?

Experience doesn't so much come from the body as it's registered through bodily sensations. The body is experienced the same way that rain is so there are not separate parts of experience. So, yes there is just simple experience which thought separates and divides- it's really clear when I catch the sound of rain and 'think' it's raining.
Still, I'm going 'outside' so I'd better take an umbrella!
thanks for your input, appicha x

[cosmiK]

Hey Appicha,

Yeah... there is Raining... there is Life-ing...
but is there a "you" anywhere in any form?

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hello
sorry for the delay- I'm back home and glad to be in touch again.

"but is there a "you" anywhere in any form?"

No there isn't a 'you/me' to be found in any form- it's that simple isn't it...
love appicha