Ready to be guided...

[cosmiK]

Great Appicha,

Refer back to the stuff we discussed on doership. Read the article, answer the 3 questions. And throughout your day simply notice, here and now if there is a separate DOER, a YOU in Experience.
Look Deeply,

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Ok. I'll be in touch tomorrow,
app x

[cosmiK]

Appichah,

very excited for this continuing discussion :)

Keep LOOKing in to your Absence.

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya
"Thought, Sensations, Presence",
Yes experience is be made up of the above (Thought including memories and projections).
Sensations being all that the bare senses perceive.
Presence or aliveness is this less definable energy or 'sensitivity' to the first two.
This LOOKING is simply experiencing 'actual' or direct' experience without the illusion or projection of the 'self'
thats my observations today, now time for bed, be well, appicha x

[shantijoe]

Appichah, sounds like a drink before bedtime-'happy chah'! g'night cosmiK (Neil?)!

[cosmiK]

Hiya Appicha,

Nice investigation. Raw and simple noticing.

this LOOKING is simply experiencing 'actual' or direct' experience without the illusion or projection of the 'self'

is the 'self projecting illusion ?

or is the 'self' a projection? just a part of Experience mistaken for a separate thing/you/me/self ?

Talk to me about where you are at with this investigation,

Sleep well,

with Love.

[shantijoe]

is the 'self' a projection? just a part of Experience mistaken for a separate thing/you/me/self ?
Hello again
I feel the 'self' is certainly a mistaken part of experience. When broken down it's like the strings, neck, body, bridge and nut of a guitar being more that the sum of their parts- there is no actual 'guitar' but its sounds lovely when all the parts are humming together. The guitar doesn't have to worry nor does a cat but 'I' get caught in the illusion of something beyond the 'sum of the parts'. The 'Presence' or 'Aliveness' can easily be mistaken for 'self' but it's impersonal- like the air 'everyone' is breathing- nobody seems to claim- 'it's my air I'm breathing!". It's easy to get caught up in the tricksy 'sense of self' especially in times of stress. I'm having some health probs and had an incident yesterday (is this a heart attack!!) and the sense of 'self-preservation' became very strong...
thanks, appicha x

[cosmiK]

The 'Presence' or 'Aliveness' can easily be mistaken for 'self' but it's impersonal- like the air 'everyone' is breathing- nobody seems to claim- 'it's my air I'm breathing!". It's easy to get caught up in the tricksy 'sense of self' especially in times of stress. I'm having some health probs and had an incident yesterday (is this a heart attack!!) and the sense of 'self-preservation' became very strong...

I am sorry to hear that, and sense of self and the function of self-preservation are fine.

I feel the 'self' is certainly a mistaken part of experience. When broken down it's like the strings, neck, body, bridge and nut of a guitar being more that the sum of their parts- there is no actual 'guitar' but its sounds lovely when all the parts are humming together. The guitar doesn't have to worry nor does a cat but 'I' get caught in the illusion of something beyond the 'sum of the parts'.

Where is the "I" that get's caught up in illusion? Find this in Direct Experience?

Where is this "I" that is separate from everything else?

If there is a point of separation between "inner" and "outter" you can look deeply at this? Is there EVER such a thing?

Questions like this are not meant for just a quick answer or conclusion, but to point to Experience, here and now, and then to report from those findings.

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya
you are a night owl- this was send late last night so despite my agreement to post daily I couldn't so:

Where is the "I" that get's caught up in illusion? Find this in Direct Experience?

In Direct Experience this 'I' can't be found. The 'I' is like my last post about the guitar so I'm repeating myself but: There are sensations (sight, smell, taste, touch etc) and the sense of aliveness or presence. The 'I' is an overlay like 'guitar' is an overlay on the sum of it's parts- am I answering your question here or just repeating muself?!
[quoteWhere is this "I" that is separate from everything else?][/quote]
As above it's not/ can't be separate from everything else as like the 'guitar' it's simply a name for the totality of 'everything else.

If there is a point of separation between "inner" and "outter" you can look deeply at this? Is there EVER such a thing?

That's an interesting one: At first it seems there must be but with my eyes closed and focused on bare sensation there is no 'inner' or 'outer' to experience- sounds are neither 'out there' or 'in here'.
I'm not clear what you mean by "Is there Ever such a thing".
Assuming you mean 'inner' and 'outer' then there is only in 'conventional concepts'- "someones shouting outside the door". I'm out of space so g'night to you, appicha x

[cosmiK]

Hi Appicha,

So have you seen through the illusion of the separate self / separation?

I meant is there ever any actual separation in Experience... In Life..

As in, is there ever a You that is separate from Life?

[shantijoe]

Hiya
I feel I have seen through the illusion of the separate self. What was 'mysterious talk' now seems clear and 'ordainary'. I'm not glib about this as I know how (as mentioned about my health issues) the illusion of self can rush in to preserve itself. Thanks for your clarification about separation. No, there is never a YOU that is separate from life- life is king!
g'night, night owl, appicha x

[cosmiK]

Hi Appicha,

I am here to guide eternally :)

Let us do a few more clarifications... Sorry If I seem repetitive, but the process can be, as the illusion can also be that way :)

I'm not glib about this as I know how (as mentioned about my health issues) the illusion of self can rush in to preserve itself.

What do you mean rushes in to preserve itself? Is there EVER anything to preserve? or is there just some thoughts of a self, some sensations, some emotions?

Also...

I feel I have seen through the illusion of the separate self

Why do you feel you have SEEn? How can you be sure?

What was different before?
What about the moment of SEEing?
What about now (after SEEing)?

Describe please,

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hello cosmiK

I am here to guide eternally :)

I don't understand that, would you kindly clarify it for me?

What do you mean rushes in to preserve itself? Is there EVER anything to preserve? or is there just some thoughts of a self, some sensations, some emotions?

There is an experience of panic when my health symptoms manifest (high blood pressure related) which can trigger fantasises of collapse or heart attack. What's to be preserved is 'life itself'. It is 'just some thoughts of self, emotions etc' but equinimity is lost. Does this help?

Why do you feel you have SEEn? How can you be sure?

I've contemplated the 'sense of self' but only found the aspects we keep refering to. The 'self' is a powerful concept but can't actually be located . What I feel I have seen is that there is simply 'seeing' not 'what I felt 'I' have seen (oh words!)

What was different before?What about the moment of SEEing?What about now (after SEEing)?

Before I was more invested in 'my temperament' or 'personality', 'likes and dislikes'. There was no 'moment' of seeing. There were some powerful experiences in meditation but they were 'conditioned' by the absorption (not really liberating)- the conditions change so the experience changes. 'Seeing' into the nature of self for me is about contemplating these questions and deeply looking for simple answers.
Now it seems quite simple, things come and go, I notice habitual behaviour and remind 'myself' not to take it seriously. Humour seems quite helpful when the sense of self 'bounces back'. This is why I'm asking for guidance 'it bounces back'!
thanks, appicha x

[cosmiK]

Hey Appicha,

I don't understand that, would you kindly clarify it for me?

Sort of a joke :)

What I feel I have seen is that there is simply 'seeing' not 'what I felt 'I' have seen (oh words!)

Good.

So...
it is clear that there is no "You" separate from Experience, from Life?
is it clear that in Experience, all manner of 'things' may appear to arise, but there is never separation in it?
is it clear that YOU are not the thinker of thoughts? and that "YOU" is just a thought, and that thoughts cannot think, feel, do, live, etc?
is it clear that there is no separate self that is in charge of Life, doing, acting, choosing, thinking, feeling and worrying?

Now it seems quite simple, things come and go, I notice habitual behaviour and remind 'myself' not to take it seriously. Humour seems quite helpful when the sense of self 'bounces back'. This is why I'm asking for guidance 'it bounces back'!

Yes... it is simple... there is just 'this'...
this Experiencing,
this Life...
whatever name we want to give to the simplicity beyond simplicity.

And why would you need guidance if you see that it is just an illusion? Why would it matter if 'it bounces back' if there is no self?

Further...

What is is missing, right here, in this moment?

is there anything that needs to change for Peace? for Rest? for Freedom?

with Love.

[shantijoe]

Hiya cosmiK
you've added aa few statements with question marks at the end, such as:
"it is clear that there is no "You" separate from Experience, from Life?"
Is it simply a statement about my last email or a question?

"And why would you need guidance if you see that it is just an illusion? Why would it matter if 'it bounces back' if there is no self? "

In order to gain confidence in this realisation- the illusion has dominated over 50 years of my life. I think confidence in this is the key to freedom.

"What is is missing, right here, in this moment? is there anything that needs to change for Peace? for Rest? for Freedom?"

Nothing is missing in this moment. What needs to change is above- the more confidence there in this realisation the more peace, rest and freedom manifests,
all the best, appicha