I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

[cosmiK]

Hey Zena!

No, I cannot think and choose a thought! :) I can believe I am, but I am not the thinker of thoughts. Have been times when I laugh at the thoughts and see it all as a big joke....a theatre, a drama, the great illusion. Suffering.

Yes! When we look at Experience, here and now, there is no You :) and as such there is NO thinker of thoughts ... just thoughts, and some nagging thoughts that say nonsense such as "of course I am the thinker of thoughts" :)

Here is an article to further solidify this simple yet constantly overlooked understanding:

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ughts.html

At this moment, intellectually I can say they are not my thoughts, but instead thoughts having to do with programs and patterns--conditioning, if you will. Felt real that 'I' and the believed in 'other' are bringing up emotional reactions. Not trying to control anything. Thought just is. Am attempting to see this as sensations of tears, discomfort/constriction etc. Attempting to just sit here with it, fully feeling it.
Obviously there is a belief of a separate self at this moment, but simultaneously in this moment that self is not there. Frustrating as hell. Like some sort of dissonance... this 'hurt of self' is not real, and the sensations can pass quickly. Perception can be that I am in a very difficult life situation, bringing up a lot of core wounds (of who?) which are supposed to be programs since infancy that "I" believe in to be 'me.' Infant programmed, but in reality, infant is pure being. That is obviously felt to be truth right now.
Well, sensations are there now to be looked at. Chest hurts, that's it. There is a stickiness to thoughts, wanting to be taken seriously.
Emotions, thoughts, images, sensations--all part of Realilty/Life. But self who is thinking, having images or sensations does not exist, and never did.

Frustration is a good sign that you are nearing Truth and that you are fed up of the bullshit.

Whatever is arising as sensations, thoughts, emotions, pain can be felt fully. It arises in total freedom and arises to noone, to no-thing. No problem in ANY of it.

We test Thoughts against direct experiential evidence and we see that all thoughts of a 'self' that can be harmed or hurt or whatever is simply not true. However, this is for you to verify for yourself, and it is very direct and easy to do, as you have found out :)

Don't worry about analyzing thoughts either and trying to grasp this intellectually - the most important thing is to keep attention on here & now and investigate any assumptions of separation and self.

Let's begin some exercises to check doership / control:

Do these 3 exercises and tell me your simple findings with respect to d.E.

After you are done with that, write to me briefly where you feel you are at with this investigation.

with Love.

[zenagazelle]

Let's begin some exercises to check doership / control:

Do these 3 exercises and tell me your simple findings with respect to d.E.

After you are done with that, write to me briefly where you feel you are at with this investigation.

Hi Cosmik~ Ready to begin exercises, but the link is not live. Can you resend? Thanks, Zena

[cosmiK]

Woops ... sorry

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... rship.html

There ya go

[zenagazelle]

Doing these exercises with dE today was not the first time this 'just happening' was experienced lately.

Walking slowly on a trail was just happening, with thoughts of self-referencing, "I am choosing to walk" or thoughts coming in and going out--"wow, lots of dead trees..."
Experiencing the soft dirt under my feet, noticing breathing, sounds,warmth of sun, coolness of air, and seeing objects was there, mingled with 'bundles' of images or thoughts, then back to walking just happening.

Thought thinks there is a controller or an intention in the second exercise of moving arms up and down. Then in moving arms again it just happened. The thoughts are part of the experience, and there was annoyance, but that passed.

The activity was cooking lunch. Noticed how automatic the movements were with mostly no thoughts. When quickness was needed it was there. When waiting was needed it just happened. Smells, sounds were more alive, and then thoughts came in and noticed and narrated. Then back to cooking happening...but all along the activity of cooking is just happening. Eating the food was not relaxed. There was a tension felt, a sense of anxiety--sensations in head--of being in 'the head.' Then noticing chewing, flavor--slowing down and just chewing is happening and taste.

Where I am at with this investigation: More and more direct felt experiences of there being no separate self, of periods of no thoughts, or just not caring about the thoughts. Some joy, peace, relaxation is happening. Along with this felt sense of 'these thoughts are SO not real!" A real knowing that there is no control. This then feels like heaviness or burdens/struggles are so illusory--a sense of dropping away or lifting of these 'burdens' or control--which is felt as lightness and laughter..joy, peace.

Then comes vacillation between this 'presence' and just plain intense 'dark moods' (but aware that this is description some of the time.) Then happens (usually in morning time) depression, doubts (this is not real--I can't 'do' this, many many thoughts, panic, sadness...felt as heaviness in chest, major fatigue, burning eyes, constriction in chest, bad dreams, 'fear'. 'Intensity, irritability, impatience, desolation.' Much comes up to be felt, but is overwhelming at times. Notice myself believing in these thoughts, and then sometimes quickly dropping that and carefully noting that this is belief systems/core wounds. Other times unable to just feel sensations in body (let it all fully be felt.)
Gets very emotional...upheavals too. Crying.
Keeping track of this with some writing.

All of this is back and forth/up and down/good and bad according to thoughts, but who is thinking? as i write this i examine the present moment and self or 'I' is sad and it feels so real. That is in all honesty at this moment--tightness in chest because there is belief that I am one of the ones that fails.
Well, there was a little laughter with that one.

[zenagazelle]

To add: there is an instability here, but that must be normal. :)

[cosmiK]

Hi Zena,

I apologize for not getting back to you in full tonight - I was out all day and have work early tomorrow morning. I will write you in full by tomorrow night.

Keep up the investigation, and looking in to your absence,

with Love.

[zenagazelle]

Thank you for letting me know, Cosmk!

[zenagazelle]

There is loads of fear since yesterday. I would say it is survival fear. It is always felt in the chest area. There is supposedly no identity to protect, so what is fear protecting? I must have plenty of ego identity. So many programs/thoughts come up..esp at night. I see them and get caught up in them and the body reacts. My life seems to be a reflection of this survival fear. Everything fell apart, unraveled. Loss. This is really big.

Thank you Cosmik

[cosmiK]

Hey Zena,

Where I am at with this investigation: More and more direct felt experiences of there being no separate self, of periods of no thoughts, or just not caring about the thoughts.

So when there are NO 'direct experiences of there being no separate self', is there a separate self?
So when there is ARE periods of thoughts, or there thoughts are cared about, is there a separate self?

I get that you are doing the work here, but you have to look deeper Zena... regardless of whatever happens, and whatever is done, and whatever thought arises, or whatever Experience there is... is there a separate self?

Notice myself believing in these thoughts, and then sometimes quickly dropping that and carefully noting that this is belief systems/core wounds.

How does this work... where in Direct Experience is there a believer of thoughts? where in Direct Experience is there a dropper of thoughts?

Do not worry about noting, look deeply... is there ANYONE there?

All of this is back and forth/up and down/good and bad according to thoughts, but who is thinking? as i write this i examine the present moment and self or 'I' is sad and it feels so real.

How can a self or "I" be sad?
is 'self' or 'I' anymore than a thought?
how can a thought be sad?

You have to challenge this 'feels real', and really ask yourself... what is real?

Is it true that there is no 'You'?

Is there ever an "I" that is there?

That is in all honesty at this moment--tightness in chest because there is belief that I am one of the ones that fails.
Well, there was a little laughter with that one.

As you have seen Zena, thoughts are always maintaining their self-referencing throne with thoughts that center around "I" / "me" / "self" as a center, but you have to really face the bare naked Truth.

There is no You.

There is loads of fear since yesterday. I would say it is survival fear. It is always felt in the chest area. There is supposedly no identity to protect, so what is fear protecting? I must have plenty of ego identity.

"I must have plenty of ego identity" is a thought conclusion, drop that too.

No matter what is coming up... keep the simple focus of falsifying the hypothesis that there is a "You" that is at the center of Life.

So many programs/thoughts come up..esp at night. I see them and get caught up in them and the body reacts. My life seems to be a reflection of this survival fear. Everything fell apart, unraveled. Loss. This is really big.

Step toward the edge...

WHO is there to get caught up in anything?

is it YOUR life ?

It's time to stop looking at this as some process that will 'get you somewhere' Zena... WHO is doing this process? WHAT is reading this sentence?

Keep your responses short, to the point and directly answering the questions posed, and we can move it from there,

with Love.

[zenagazelle]

First, I must speak of what happened in reading part of another thread that relates to my intense survival fear, that came up again last night, and then I wrote. I know what you are getting at Cosmik, but I must first share this with you. Its important to address this as it is what is up for me now, and illusory mind is also seen. Knowing there are stories: Husband and I without employment, income--so all fears are up to look at. Loss of home/stuff. I have mentioned great loss (according to mind story that then has Zena look at core wounds) to you.
Either it's panic attacks or its a full knowing that all will be taken care of--always is. Through the following dialogue is a learning of compassion for mind doing its job. Just what I needed to learn. Yes, there is no me, no i and i have shown this through dE to you. However, there is a process and I learned about this here. your reply to me i understand as 'pushing', but i must be honest and not afraid to say that what i needed last night was compassion and i found it.



Ilona said: if you think that you have to do something to survive, then look again, do you have to? surviving is easy, you eat, sleep, stay warm and nothing threatens survival. it is not that easy to die.

what mind is protecting is not physical survival, but survival of illusion. mind thinks that if it will see that there is no control over anything, it will die. it will not. there is nothing that dies. mind is going to keep doing it's job as it does now, plan, use thinking for practical tasks, analyze and use logic, only it will be clearer thinking and calmer, more peaceful mind, as it won't need to protect the imaginary me.

so ask your mind if it is ready to see the truth, that there is no thinker at all. if it says yes, then take that look, see for yourself if it is true or not. if it says no, ask it kindly, what is it afraid of, what is it protecting and ask it to check if it still needs to be protected. in other words, talk to the mind as if you would to a child, with love and kindness.

write to me what comes up.
much love.

Here is what I wrote to myself and now to you {Mind said no-'there is a thinker' and I asked kindly, what is it afraid of. Mind said, first of all there is believing in protecting the very scared baby/child who thinks it is going to die. Mind is also protecting that same entity as an adult entity who believes she will be a bag lady. Mind needs to have a plan so as not to be homeless and starving and cold. Mind also believes that there won't have a mate anymore due to some astro aspects! these astro aspects are just the programming being shown (I have been practising astrology for 27 years) Mind thinks I am going to lose my mate. Mind programming is unworthiness, lack, loss.}

Ilona: Some days mind does not want to look, it feels danger, it thinks it is real. And then the fear shows up about loosing your loved family (in my case mate too) Nothing can get lost. Nothing real is ever threatened. Only lies and illusions get exposed. (compassionate statement that i needed to hear.)

Please keep writing every day, even if you have nothing to say, this shows the mind that you are serious in this investigation.

Ask the mind, to see for itself, if it's true, that mate, home, stuff would get lost if it was seen that there is no I.
Thank it and show appreciation for the mind that it is working for you so well and ask it I'd it wants freedom from judgemental thinking. If it wants peace.

Write to me what comes up.


I substituted Zena for Kas' name If you look at zena as a character in the story about zena, are you driving it? Are you the actor? Can you choose what happens to zena? What is it that drives the story?

Investigate here Zena, what will be lost


My writing {Mind, you are seeing that there is no I and that there is no thinker! I give you much thanks and appreciation for this. It has been very real experientially that mind is seeing. in seeing there is no i, mind is calming down a bit knowing that it will not lose mate, being safe in a home environment, stuff. There is still in fear right now, but something is changing. Zena knows that always, all needs are met. I also know that when there is fear, it causes a blockage from Life and when mind lets go, the blockage is freed and everything needed pours in. Its happened so many times. Mind still throws up the fear, survival fear kicks in as a program only. Mind does want freedom from judgment and stress.
I see that mind does desire peace! How could it not? There is no i, and mind is peaceful knowing this and that there is a deprogramming as such.

Character Zena in the story about Zena. many times i believe i am driving the story. but i am not, it is just happening to show up according to w.hat programs are still in mind. i see that now, once again. there is no i driving the story, no zena, no character. life happening on its own. i cannot choose what happens to zena! i can think there is an i that make choices, or seem to, but life is just happening. to have caring for mind's job (its tough on thoughts!) to have compassion for mind. there is no i choosing now as i write this, so mind is letting go, relaxing and SEES what it needs to see. it is letting go of the fear programming at this moment. there is a falling or relaxing sensation right here now.

what is it that drives the story? there is no i driving the story, so the story does not exist. the story is of the mind's imagining stuff--images, thoughts, believing them. sensations are believed in as a story by mind.

my mind is really putting up a fight here. something is stirred up? there is less identification with thoughts, and at the same time more thoughts than ever!

something Ilona said: Oh yeah, mind is processing big time. All system has been shaken. So just go with that for as long as it lasts and welcome every bit that comes up. Say yes to identification and watch how it drops each time it rises. So much compassion in this statement! :)

What is noticed here is that mind is working overtime to stay in place doing it's usual job. Welcoming every bit that comes up in mind last night and now, I am noticing that resistance is relaxing. Mind has an agenda for everything, and in my not resisting mind just doing its job, I am seeing in t his moment the exact machinations of mind and that there is NO director or actor or character here. No self, me or i. Just mind thoughts passing through. A relaxation comes--a freeing of burdens/struggle. A stillness or beingness is there--just looking at what is here in the present.
Thought identification comes and goes. Habit of believing in the stories is there along with sensation of freedom, relaxation.

I will write another post re your recent reply to me. thanks for your time.

[cosmiK]

Hi Zena,

Thanks for your share.

Everything that happened happened without a separate self, and will continue to do so. Life takes care of itself :) What I want to do is put the focus back on seeing through the separate self, as that is the most important insight here.

I am glad that those posts helped you, and look forward to hearing your responses to my last post, and seeing where you are at with your investigation,

with Love.

[zenagazelle]

Dear Cosmik,
The share I sent you was all about seeing through the separate self in an astounding and new way, as part of this investigation. There has never been a loss of focus on this and insights were pouring in. I also wrote about where it put me in my investigation, outlining deep Experiencing. It was pivotal for me. Identity with thoughts or not is a part of this awakening process...the vacillation. Didn't you notice the shift? And, that what I needed to know is that there is a back and forth process and a definite 'dark night of the soul' to this awakening process--a disintegration process. A letting go of the personal will I've heard it called. Well, that is what it feels like. Its like a death. That is what is happening here, and from what I have learned previously online, is that this is a normal thing, and that I will be spending time 'ripening,' which is what is going on right here and right now. Comments please? Thank you. Zena
thank you

[cosmiK]

Hi Zena,

there is certainly an oscillation in the process, and whatever is being Experienced is totally fine, and OK - I do appreciate your share.

However, the process is between you and me, in the sense that I ask the questions, you investigate, and answer - repeat. I still haven't received back responses to my last set of questions. I asked a lot of key questions that highlighted and checked aspects and angles of this oscillation. Could you please go back and respond to that post/questions directly.

with Love.

[zenagazelle]

Where I am at with this investigation: More and more direct felt experiences of there being no separate self, of periods of no thoughts, or just not caring about the thoughts.

So when there are NO 'direct experiences of there being no separate self', is there a separate self?
So when there is ARE periods of thoughts, or there thoughts are cared about, is there a separate self?

I get that you are doing the work here, but you have to look deeper Zena... regardless of whatever happens, and whatever is done, and whatever thought arises, or whatever Experience there is... is there a separate self?

No there isn't.

Notice myself believing in these thoughts, and then sometimes quickly dropping that and carefully noting that this is belief systems/core wounds.

How does this work... where in Direct Experience is there a believer of thoughts? where in Direct Experience is there a dropper of thoughts?

Do not worry about noting, look deeply... is there ANYONE there?

There is no myself believing in the thoughts. Mind jumps in has some kind of a dialogue. Last night and today there is an emptiness--the sensation is numbness. Right now mind is still.

All of this is back and forth/up and down/good and bad according to thoughts, but who is thinking? as i write this i examine the present moment and self or 'I' is sad and it feels so real.

How can a self or "I" be sad?
is 'self' or 'I' anymore than a thought?
how can a thought be sad?

You have to challenge this 'feels real', and really ask yourself... what is real?

Is it true that there is no 'You'?

Is there ever an "I" that is there?

Humaness/mind=thoughts and emotions. 'Pure awareness', no self is just Life living--cannot be sad, nor an 'I.' Both happen. Life contains all.
Always experiencing the no self even if it is covered up by layers of the dream stuff believed in at times. No, self or 'I' is never anymore than a thought. Sad is just a word to describe a story of mind. A label, a story.

What is real is in the moment only. Asking 'what is real now' or what is being now, (who am 'I' really now) the answer is no one, nothing. Nothing there at all. Mind will abruptly kick in to do it's job of maintaining the status quo, but thoughts can pass through, such as in this moment. Challenge this 'feels real' thing in the asking of 'what i's real?' Well, it is like asking 'is this true?' and writing what comes. In this moment I am not believing that process is something that 'gets me there.' there is not a process because there is not time.
Just looking and noticing the vacillation in the moments it is there. No effort involved when it happens.

It is true that on the level of the no self there is no 'process' or time.
There is no time in the moment of seeing that there is no self. there is just a habit of believing thoughts or story or time, but right now there is no story--just typing, sounds, sitting.

Yes, it is true that there is no 'me.' Life is moving through all the time, changing. Stillness is happening in mind because mind is peaceful. There is peace and a sense of well being and aliveness even though the body is very tired.

No, there is not an 'I' that is ever there. No existence of an 'I.' Life just is.

Will finish your questions tomorrow.
thank you,
Zena

[cosmiK]

Zena,

wonderful :)

I look forward to hearing your responses tomorrow.

with Love.