Jen seeking guidance

[Jenness]

Hi Becca!

Things have been shifting and the fear around no-self isn’t believed as much, like there doesn’t seem to be anything to be afraid of . But it still comes up, maybe not as much and not as a much as fear but it still feels really bad, and i can’t really tell what the emotion is, it just feels like resistance to the energy moving. The energy moving through my body in bigger waves hit up against the thought that says hey that’s not supposed to do that because that’s my body that’s supposed to have a solidity and keep energies from moving around it everywhere. Especially out, it really doesn’t like energy leaving the body, especially the head, as if there’s no clear boundary there

So… if it moves is it anything more than a sensation and a thought after the fact?

What if the “me” isn’t a thing hiding in any of these locations? It’s just a labeling process that continually attaches itself to whatever currently feels most central.

It’s definitely a sensation and a thought when i look at it enough, and then there’s some relief. It’s finally a relief rather than just fear, but it doesn’t last. The idea that I’m not here as an agent seems so absurd to the brain. And it tags back and is believed before i even notice it. I can use pointers to lighten it up , like it’s a dream , etc., but I can’t tell if that’s bypassing really feeling through the suffering or if it s a good thing to familiarize with so i don’t have to keep reconstituting a self to suffer needlessly

So multiple ‘me’s?

Yea it’s similar to the above. Like it doesn’t make sense but it keeps clinging on to avoid being gone. Like the system would rather suffer than let go of the idea of a self.

For the looker can you find actual eyes behind the physical eyes? Or does the sense of looking consist of sensations plus an idea?

No eyes behind the eyes. Just a sensation in my head that’s tagged with the idea of a looker. This one’s a bit less here though than before.

How does the observer “see” the looker? Does it have a location? A boundary?

It just notices that something is noticed, and then goes, well it’s gotta be me noticing it, because what else could it be. Because if it’s not me, then that means there’s no me here. The idea that there’s no need for an entity here for everything to be known is sinking in, but slowing. It’s very resistant, throws up sadness and tensions

Notice something curious.

Every time you discover an observer…
…another observer appears that seems to observe the previous one. It is feeling like a hall of mirrors!

Yea, doesn’t make sense to the brain. The hall of mirrors in this moment stops at: this is my body, then i look at the thought claiming it’s me, and then I can’t find the thinker. But somehow that doesn’t loosen that belief that it’s my body, or it feels bad and it just keeps the label on in order to not feel bad. It’s like willful ignorance almost. I can look at the idea, “this is my body” and i can look for whose it is and not find it, and fear comes , but as soon as i glance away, it’s right back, like a little thief but putting things on instead of taking away.

Is there actually another observer? Or is there simply another thought claiming there must be one?

There’s no observers anywhere. Just a thought claiming it’s

Appearance Is. Suffering is not about the appearance itself, though that appearance could even be a sensation of pain… it is about the poor me thought after an appearance. That is the suffering. The ‘this should not have happened to ME’. See through self and it isn’t personal. It just is.

Yes, that’s the thought it goes back to, this should not be happening to me. Hmm it hadn’t considered that it doesn’t have to allow the suffering, it just has to remember it’s not happening to a me.. but that’s the same loop maybe, just trying to use a pointer to get away from suffering

So… Better for whose sake to see through it? ;)

Hahaha it’s so tricky..! This question is great, brings some relief of, oh i guess nothing to do then. But then, just the ones above, grabs right back into : for me, it’s important to see thorugh it for me so i suffer less!

[graceabounds]

Hi!

The energy moving through my body in bigger waves hit up against the thought that says hey that’s not supposed to do that because that’s my body that’s supposed to have a solidity and keep energies from moving around it everywhere. Especially out, it really doesn’t like energy leaving the body, especially the head, as if there’s no clear boundary there

:)
As if?

Can you find the boundary at all? Are you in any way in control of the energy moving as it does?

Lie on your back and relax. Have a look at the ceiling.
There is thought to be a distance between that what is thought to be known as ‘body’ and that what is labeled ‘ceiling’.

Close your eyes. Now focus on the space between body and ceiling.

Take your time, breathe in and out and simply look. Keep the eyes shut.

What do you notice?
Is there a body? Is there a ceiling? Is there a distance?

Like the system would rather suffer than let go of the idea of a self

Is this true?

… or all thought…

The idea that there’s no need for an entity here for everything to be known is sinking in, but slowing.

Sinking in TO WHO? or for whom?

Are any of those things happening right now, or are they thoughts appearing right now?

That’s the edge you’re at.

Hmm it hadn’t considered that it doesn’t have to allow the suffering, it just has to remember it’s not happening to a me.. but that’s the same loop maybe, just trying to use a pointer to get away from suffering

Don’t consider any of this! Any of it! LOOK.

Sitting in a room, curtains closed, you wonder what the weather is like outside. You can think about it, look it up on the internet, watch the forecast on TV, call your mother and ask her - or you can simply open the curtains and have a loo

See directly if it is happening to a you… or Not.

[Jenness]

Hi Becca!
Hope you’ve been well!

Did these a few times and more energy releasing each time.

Can you find the boundary at all? Are you in any way in control of the energy moving as it does?

Nope for both! Still brings up fear to see but less so with time

Lie on your back and relax. Have a look at the ceiling.
There is thought to be a distance between that what is thought to be known as ‘body’ and that what is labeled ‘ceiling’.

Close your eyes. Now focus on the space between body and ceiling.

Take your time, breathe in and out and simply look. Keep the eyes shut.

What do you notice?
Is there a body? Is there a ceiling? Is there a distance?

Just a moving density where i thought my body was, with a label of “I’m around here where the density is” label on it. When i use the apple, bird, transparent “Me” exercise, it loosens the label, with more intense energy coming up , which the label then stuck to, to which i applied the same exercise, and then was a little less stickiness. The label of “me” can seem to temporarily not be tagged. When then it comes back and tags onto the body again, but it’s believed a little less.

I

s this true?

… or all thought…

It’s all thought, but I’m still having a hard time with thought, like hmm are no thoughts true? They seem to describe how things appear, but they’re still appearances themselves. Also, seems like anything i can say is a thought. It’s confusing

Sinking in TO WHO? or for whom?

Are any of those things happening right now, or are they thoughts appearing right now?

That’s the edge you’re at.

Right now, it doesn’t seem like much is happening, just thoughts describing what’s here, diving it up into things and describing relationships between them.

See directly if it is happening to a you… or Not.

Did this one frequently. Doesn’t seem like there’s a me here, though there’s fear energy and a belief there’s a me here still holding and contracting energy into body , or that’s the thought about what’s happening here..just letting it contract and pulse and struggle against the energy , which still smuggles a “letter” back in.. every thought seems to presuppose a “me”

[graceabounds]

Hi Jen,

Yes, am well, really feeling this lovely transition into fall season right now.

I really love the way you are working with the body in this report. ❤️

It’s all thought, but I’m still having a hard time with thought, like hmm are no thoughts true? They seem to describe how things appear, but they’re still appearances themselves. Also, seems like anything i can say is a thought. It’s confusing

Everything thought is a thought haha. Can ‘confusing’ appear without a thought?

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise, otherwise google for a picture of one.

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Direct experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Direct experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in direct experience?
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in direct experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in direct experience‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known??

every thought seems to presuppose a “me”

Aha!!! Yes, they do don’t they…

Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?

Big love,
Becca

[Jenness]

Hi Becca!

Sorry for the delay. Going through an intensive meditation program so been busy, but have been continuing to look at my thoughts and catching them more as thoughts rather than automatically true. Harder to see through the watcher thought though. It’s not as tagged locationally to a tension as much anymore but somehow there’s just a freefloating “me” , like a sense “I’m here” so I’m the one experiencing this and doing this and owning this. Automatic belief is, something’s here in experience and so it must be being experienced by a me. Going through the below is helpful for it, like looking at there’s colors, thoughts, sounds, sensations (and smell and taste), and so where could there be a me? Comes with both a sense of looseness and fear at the same time.

Everything thought is a thought haha. Can ‘confusing’ appear without a thought?

No! It’s just a thought on top of an “emotional energy” labeled “thing”.

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise, otherwise google for a picture of one.

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Direct experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Direct experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in direct experience?
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in direct experience.

The thoughts are known but they aren’t true, they’re just a particular description or perspective on what’s appearing

This is what is meant by ‘looking in direct experience‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known??

No, just a convincing thought..! Why does it seem so real?? I think because the feeling of no form I can hang onto is scary

Aha!!! Yes, they do don’t they…

Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?

No! Feels almost like there’s a choice of whether to take a risk and accept it and let go of the previous belief that there’s gotta be a self there. But that’s also all thought…
Will keep using the above to look at this..!

Much love,
Jen

[graceabounds]

Great.

it still feels really bad, and i can’t really tell what the emotion is, it just feels like resistance to the energy moving. The energy moving through my body in bigger waves hit up against the thought that says hey that’s not supposed to do that because that’s my body that’s supposed to have a solidity and keep energies from moving around it everywhere. Especially out, it really doesn’t like energy leaving the body, especially the head, as if there’s no clear boundary there

Can you break this down? What is 'it'? How is resistance known in direct experience?

Does the body object to the energy moving or just the thoughts? Do you have any control whatsoever of thoughts like 'my body is supposed to' or 'i don't like'?

I think because the feeling of no form I can hang onto is scary

What is this feeling in direct experience, prior to the interpretation?