I am so much more

[Anastacia42]

Well, Maja, this could be it. It will come & go. What more do you need?

We do have done suggestions for inquiring while walking in nature.

Nature Exercise

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Is witnessing part of the one movement, too?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and write what you found.

Loving,

[maya8383]

Well, Maja, this could be it. It will come & go. What more do you need?

I am not certain that I've seen through illusion of self. When I do that palm excercise, or focus my attention on the senses while doing something and inquire who's doing that, seems like there is really no doer, yet I cannot say something shifted in my relationship with thoughts, I have a really strong doubt on that one. I am trying not to have expectations and try seeing those as just thoughts and as obstacle to seeing truth, but something still feels off/not certain. My seeing is that visuals changed, but there was no actual shift in way I experience things. There is still feeling of me in this world, life, still not sure if I'm apart or not... You can probably see from what I've just written that I'm super confused, and not sure of anything now anymore. Where I'm at, where am I, is there an I... thoughts, thoughts..

Thanks for the new excercise, I feel like I need more time on that one, I am restless and confused today, and mind is not doing me a favor.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Take you time.

It seems you're simply stuck in doubt.

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp

Watch this on doubt, please.

Loving,

[maya8383]

It seems you're simply stuck in doubt.

Very much so, I have the same feeling that doubtful thoughts are overlaying my experience...

Watch this on doubt, please.

Funny that you've shared this. I watched all the lessons from the 1st fetter just before I got you as a guide. And want to go to 2nd fetter lessons for 2 weeks now but for some reason I haven't yet. And now you recommended it :)

I'm gonna watch it in the evening. Thanks Stacy

[Anastacia42]

Good.

You seen to be seeing then doubting it.

Loving,

[maya8383]

Yes. Fail everytime to unhook those two moments (seeing the thougts and beliving them) they feel like one thing.

I had the similar change in my vision in 2024 while I was running, trees and nature around me just started to shine so bright, like I took gray glasses off. It eas beautiful! Now with this new change mind is saying - well, that's nothing, Maja, it happened in 2024 too and it didn't bring you freedom. No big deal. And I believe it. I don't understand how not to buy into that.

[Anastacia42]

Fail everytime to unhook those two moments (seeing the thougts and beliving them) they feel like one thing.

A thought is the same as belief in a thought? Surely not. Tell me about that


Let's look at thought.

Observing Thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Loving,

[maya8383]

A thought is the same as belief in a thought? Surely not. Tell me about that

No, they're not the same thing. I see that. For example, I don't believe the thought saying 'Santa Clause is real' for sure. Just, those thoughts that I do believe are so sticky, I know it's not true that I'm not capable of seeing the truth and to see through self illusion, but I guess I obviously believe it.

I've watched 2 lessons on doubt. They're insightful, indeed. I understand that my doubts are because of the underlying belief, which I've no idea what that is. Could be anything really... I will practice what she is recommending, feeling it in the body, focus on joy of experiencing, as obviously I cannot solve it with the mind so I'm gonna stop now with the words.

I'm traveling today and tomorrow, just letting you know Stacy, if I don't manage to sit in silence this evening I'm gonna come back to you tomorrow evening.

[Anastacia42]

My seeing is that visuals changed, but there was no actual shift in way I experience things.

Vision is perception. This sounds like the shift we are looking for. 2024, too. How is a shift in vision not a shift in how you experience things? What did you expect?

There is still feeling of me in this world, life, still not sure if I'm apart or not...

This is just awareness or consciousness. That stays. But it is not a "self." Don't try to make it one. Those are just thoughts, stories. lies.


From an email from Ilona

Nothing dramatic happened.

There were no fireworks.
No permanent bliss states.
No sudden personality changes.

And yet, something shifted.


Here are a few things people said afterwards:

“I’m not fighting my experience anymore. There’s more space around everything.”

“I expected something big to happen. Instead, life feels simpler and I trust myself more.”

“There’s less urgency. The seeking has softened.”


This is the kind of shift this work supports.

Ilona Cuinate

That's all.

Loving,

[maya8383]

How is a shift in vision not a shift in how you experience things? What did you expect?

Good questions.

I understand that vision in perpection changed the way I see things: colors are brighter, objects I look at are very clear, close and sharp. I feel calmness when I look at them, nature especially. But that lasts for seconds at maximum. Then worries take over. I am not minimising that shift in my vision. It happened, two times now.

My expectation was I would feel less worried about the future, more present - meaning that thoughts would go in the background of my experience, that I would not believe my worries, but there is still a lot of pushing and pulling on thoughts, I do not feel that changed at all. Visuals are one thing, and relationship with thoughts another thing. Visuals changed but the heaviness I feel no matter what I do didn't. I cannot let go of worries for my future. That stayed the same.

And, I understand that everyone's experience of shift is different but one thing I hear a lot is 'you will know it when that happens, it is so obvious you cannot miss it'. That's another thing that sticks in my head. A lot of them say that at that moment when shift happened their mind went absolutely quiet,that they could see thoughts for what they are - just thoughts. I still feel I get sucked up into them whenever a challenge arises. Maybe not to extent I got before I started my healing but I still do. Feeling of suffering remains.

I also see that other people who see through self they're so confident in that, I am nowhere there.

I am being fully honest.

[Anastacia42]

the heaviness I feel no matter what I do didn't.

Thats just the lie feeling.Remember this?

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.


Loving,

[maya8383]

Thats just the lie feeling.Remember this?

Yess, very good reminder. There is that constant tight feeling in my belly and in the upper abdomen.. it's tight all my life.

I am thinking of signing up for Ilona's round 3 of seeing through the self illusion on October 10. That might push me even more to look.

[maya8383]

Where are they coming from and going to?

They come out of nowhere, they dissolve into nowhere/nothing. I remember the 'mind screen' exercise that I first heard from Ilona, helped me to locate a particular spot, in front of my eyes where I notice them appearing, and then going.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Nope. First I noticed that some thoughts form based on what I see in my environment, for example, I looked at the floor and a thought came in how years ago I found money on the street. And then I realised that's just a new thought reflecting previous thought, I had no control over what that new thought would be, could've been anything else, any other memory or imagined scenario, really. That's clear.

Also, when my back hurts, I get negative thoughts which cause irritation and nervousness, what about that and similar scenarios? Where I feel like thought didn't come out of nowhere but directly because of chronic pain, for example?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No. Only with the force when I say for example 'think of an apple now' and then I'd see a picture of an apple. But even with forcing a particular thought, that thought again came out of nowhere? Confused. I am missing something obvious here, probably.

Can you predict your next thought?

Certainly not.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Nope.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

I cannot, unless I force it, but I already asked you about that in one of the previous answers.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing

No. They're coming and going all of the time, some are easy to disregard and to let them go, but some get me so much that I realise only after minutes or more I was so lost in thoughtland, thinking about giberish. :)

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Yeah, a lot of them I see cleary they come out of nowhere, but some of them seem to take content from previous thought, but that statement is just a thought too, as you say. Now that I look closely, it starts being clear to me how new thoughts could've been formed in whatever different way, that they might not be in relation to previous thought. Not clear yet, but it has to be what you say, that's the feel.

[Anastacia42]

when my back hurts, I get negative thoughts which cause irritation and nervousness, what about that and similar scenarios? Where I feel like thought didn't come out of nowhere but directly because of chronic pain, for example?

That's just another thought. A thought about a thought.

https://a.co/d/06rpvnAA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscien ... periment

Maybe those will help. Thoughts are always second. Never first.

Loving

[Anastacia42]

On Wikipedia, look at Notable Experiments for Libet.