seeking freedom

[graceabounds]

You are welcome to write as much as you like!

Regarding the first message, I’d like you to try this exercise:

HOW TO DISTINGUISH WHAT FEELS FREE AND ALIVE (TRUE) FROM WHAT FEELS CONTRACTED (FALSE/UNTRUE/LIE)

We often 'lie' every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes, there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you might have been grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you 'lied', "I'm fine."

In conventional or consensus reality we are not going to be airing everything that is going on in our lives, but it is important that we become aware of our inner state of body sensations. While the body sensations are true, meaning that our direct experience of them is real, the way we interpret them can be misleading.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie. This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is important to notice the body sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body sensations & able to clearly describe them in words. This will help.
Lies can be felt in the upper body, often in the heart, solar plexus or arms, as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed. It feels like relief, like some heavy load has dropped away. You felt that when you did the exercise dropping the words "I am", do you remember?


First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. You don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what body sensations arise as you listen.

Or, even looking at what happens in your body when you have a thought "I should have done ..............." or, "This should / should not have happened................."

Please report back with what body sensations (not interpretations) you felt. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

And a realization that thoughts are wild, crazy, non sense. At the same time, thought them, is when realizations, insights happen

They are nonsense! And I would challenge that insights happen despite them… by looking through or past them as you are here:

just the consideration that there is no "arriving"

And here:

"maybe that is just it, that is the gate, or there is no gate, how am I gonna know"?

In a very real sense none of this can ever be KNOWN. Not by the same mechanism that does the knowing :)

the "I" , the protagonist, Daniela, seems that should be treated as something very real

Is it real? Or is it the same as the ‘gate’ or the concept of ‘arriving’… a mental construct that cannot be found in reality. Something/someone that only exists in thought.

Could it be?

[danielak]

Becca, this's so helpful!! I appreciate your explanation. And it makes total sense.
And I had a very interesting experience after reading it. I was telling myself a lie, I tried different ones but I wasn't able to notice much difference. The usual pressure in center of my the chest, between my breasts. and in my throat I feel a warmth and a little tension too. However, when I started reading it something opened up. And it touched me. I felt a relief . And I started to think about what is actually true. And I felt a relaxation in the body, I started to cry, the pressure on my chest dissolved and and I feel an open chest (it felt as if before the pressure was very sharp/localized and then it spreads to a bigger area and lost its intensity), my breathing slowed down and I wanted to go to the bathroom. I felt at peace.
It was beautiful. As if I have been holding up for a long time this tension (these lies) and for a moment I could drooped them. I was telling myself "I'm doing my best", "there is nothing wrong with me", "I'm free", I'm safe". and also more specific things like "I love my family", "I'm healthy", it was such a relief! It seems like doing positive affirmations, but felt true (relaxed energy).
And it reminds me when I had sessions with my mentor, a very wise man, and I felt like I could be myself, open up and that was exactly how my body responded , I always cried and after I wanted to go tho the bathroom, lol. My whole body felt relaxed.
And what you wrote reminds me about the teaching from Abraham Hicks, not sure if you're familiar with it, where they talk that the only thing we should be focus on is how we feel, and exactly what you say, there is only feeling good (what's true) and feeling bad (wha's a lie) and if we use the feeling good to navigate life, that is how we have a joyful and peaceful life. ..anyway.

About the second part
I think I can get what you say that insights just happens, it was not a through creation, but maybe a thought "translation" . But the knowing is there, there is something about my mind, the conditionings that are unique from this human experience that allows me have insights about this and not about that, or perceive one thing in a way and not another and that happens though thoughts no? And that is not how this realization of no self happens? it seems not right, when you write that it cannot be known thought the same mechanism that does the knowing....I'm a bit lost here...

[graceabounds]

Yes, this is how the body navigates life, and always has. It may have a lot to say now that there is seeing of this.

So, is ‘I’ a lie? What does the body say? What are the sensations?


Similarly, the insight you seek comes from taking a look, not from thinking about the self.

there is something about my mind, the conditionings that are unique from this human experience that allows me have insights about this and not about that, or perceive one thing in a way and not another and that happens though thoughts no?

Isn’t ‘there must be another way to think or perceive other than this’ also a thought? ;)

Right now, take something in front of you. Look at it.

Before the thought “I know what that is” appears, there is already color, shape, texture, perhaps movement.

Then the thought comes.
And suddenly there is “the thing.” !

The particular meaning you give what you’re seeing is conditioned. Your history determines which associations arise, which distinctions seem important, what catches attention, what gets ignored.

But here’s where I want you to LOOK rather than theorize:
Can you find the conditioning itself?

(Not a thought about your conditioning or a memory of how you became conditioned.)

Find the actual thing you are calling conditioning.
What is there?

[danielak]

So, I was paying attention to the body sensations. telling me things mentally and being what I feel. What I notice is every time I say something positive, like I'm free, I'm perfect as I am or life is just happening by itself..it feels good, even when it's about the "I", like "I'm doing my best". And the sensation in the body...to be honest is not that clear, but it's like the pressure in the chest reduce and became more spread. And when I say "I'm in control of everything" "I should be doing better" , "I'm not good enough"..... the pressure in the chest is stronger.
About the conditioning , I cannot find it, I cannot "see" it as an actual thing. I could say it's a pattern, but not a direct experience.

[graceabounds]

“I’m free.” What makes that sentence feel good?
Is there actually a little I being experienced in the chest?Or is there a thought containing the word I, followed by a particular bodily response?

About the conditioning , I cannot find it, I cannot "see" it as an actual thing. I could say it's a pattern, but not a direct experience

Yes. Stay exactly with what you found.

The sentence “I’m not good enough” appeared. The chest responded. Then the sentence “I’m doing my best” appeared. The chest responded differently. So where exactly is the conditioning in all of this?

Can you find an entity called conditioning sitting behind the thought and producing the sensation? :)
… or can you only ever find what is happening right now?

[danielak]

There is still of a bit of confusion about the body sensation. I'm doing the exercise again, because last time it seemed that I was thinking more than really feeling. And doing it again now, the same experience happened. Saying the sentences "I don't exist" vs. "I'm in control over my life" - in both I feel the same sensation in the body, the pressure in the chest. Even now, I just thought about a neutral thing "I like sweets" and the pressure still there.
In the last few days there have been waves of emotions, I was frustrated and angry, with a repetitive thought going on for the whole day, not just one day, but a recurring thought about a situation that bothers me. To be honest I've been having difficulty to address it, so it just stay in my head, thinking about it now makes me want to cry, and I feel the pressure in the chest. However, yesterday the thoughts changed. I felt silly being so angry about it, thinking that I'm making this a bigger deal than it should be, and that actually I'm the one who is being impatient and intolerant, I was so much lighter. But now I cannot recall exactly how I felt int he body.
But today the old feelings came back, and now I'm angry again. I realize how crazy this is, how the thoughts make no sense. It's absurd. However, the emotion is still very strong. It's a situation I'm afraid to address (saying this makes me cry), so it stays just in my thoughts, and the rumination keeps going on. I know that to "solve" this, I need to address. But I'm afraid, so I keep avoiding it. And I then I think about that it's not "me" avoiding, it's just happening what it's supposed to happen, they're just crazy thoughts, there is nothing that "I" have to do. And I get confused, because it feels like a way to justify not addressing it.
Anyway, I also wanted to share that yesterday I had a very beautiful experience. I was listening to Ilona's podcast and somehow the way she and her guests were talking about this awaking an insight happened , it felt like another layer of illusion had dropped (is this possible? to awaken little by little?) there was a recognition of things happening by itself, something that I hadn't experienced before, the thoughts, movements , sensations... and I could understand (experience somehow) what you mean by no time, no-one, no future, no past, no I. It wasn't a "super" realization as people describe that feels one with the universe and everything collapses. It was subtle. But I felt the present moment as the only thing that exist and the experience of this moment that happens thought this body , mind.. it's what exist. It was something new
I do feel helpful to be listening to podcasts, audiobooks about it, and I had some beautiful experiences doing this, but so far I have been restricted to Ilona podcast, which maybe it's already enough. But if there is anything else that I could or you recommend me to listen to I would love to know. I have being restricted to your orientation of not reading, listenning to anything else, but if there're exceptions let me know lol.

[danielak]

Good morning Becca,

Yesterday during the day I was listening to Ilona's podcast and she was guiding someone. The person was talking about not being good enough and these kind of conditioning. And I had a realization about the situation I shared before with you about feeling angry and not being able to express myself. I was frustrated because I shouldn't be angry, I should be able to control the anger or I should be able to speak up about the anger. But then, I don't remember exactly what Ilona was saying, it made me ask who is angry? who can't deal with the angry? and something opened up, I couldn't find anyone. I wanted to write you right away lol.
Once again something else became clearer. this frustration kind of dissolve a bit, was released. I can't remember the sensation in the body, but a shift happened, I could see that there's no-one there to be angry. The rest of the day was busy, and after work I had a birthday party, and all this "realization" was "gone", I was feeling as the same. It isn't that the illusion of self has totally dropped, but the perception is changing. Could be that?
Have a beautiful day!

[graceabounds]

There is still of a bit of confusion about the body sensation. I'm doing the exercise again, because last time it seemed that I was thinking more than really feeling. And doing it again now, the same experience happened. Saying the sentences "I don't exist" vs. "I'm in control over my life" - in both I feel the same sensation in the body, the pressure in the chest. Even now, I just thought about a neutral thing "I like sweets" and the pressure still there.

Is the lie the word 'I'? Take a look

For the fear about addressing something, take a look at where that is in the body and describe the direct experience of it for me. Is 'avoiding' in the same place as the fear? Does avoiding live in the body or is it a strategy to not be present with the fear?

Yes, there is another podcast I would recommend: The Awakening Curriculum. Take a listen and see if it resonates. Start with Fetter 1 and take your time with the material. You can progress to Fetter 2 and Fetter 3 but do not go past those for now. Feel free to bring any questions about it up here.

With love,
Becca

[graceabounds]

Just saw your second message, yes wonderful.

Keep looking for the owner of each emotion. It isn’t about the emotion itself or making it change or go away, but in looking again and again if there is a center that is defined by it.

❤️

[danielak]

Hi Becca.

When I look at the avoidance, first comes in mind the situation that I'm angry at. There is a contraction in my chest, also in my throat, I feel it pressured and warmth, and a contraction in my face expression too. Now thinking about the avoidance to address it: the warmth happens in a bigger are of the chest and goes to the throat, I thought about an specific outcome and I felt my heart beating faster, more like one pick.
But this's so weird. like right now, I'm not thinking about none of this, and still, the sensations are like the same, this pressure in my chest and throat. If I pay attention it's like a constant state, and also I feel something on where I put my attention. And sometimes when I'm paying attention to the body sensations the worry or anger or frustration disappears because my focus is on something else.
It's interesting how challenging and confusion this sensations associated with emotions are for me.

[graceabounds]

Stay with the chest/throat sensation.

Can you find, in direct experience, the exact boundary of this “pressure”? Underneath the idea of the chest. Not labeled “anger.” Just the raw sensation.

Is it actually constant, or are there tiny changes in pressure, warmth, pulsing, vibration, movement?

Does the sensation itself contain the words anger, avoidance, outcome, or something is wrong?

When a thought about the situation appears, does the sensation itself change, or is there simply sensation + a new thought about it?

It's interesting how challenging and confusion this sensations associated with emotions are for me

Just make note of the ownership here.
So next, drop the word “emotion.”

For 30 seconds, forget anger, avoidance, worry, frustration, chest, throat, even “sensation.”

Just experience whatever is actually there.

See what changes, moment by moment?

[danielak]

Can you find, in direct experience, the exact boundary of this “pressure”?

No, it feels like energy, which we cannot identify the boundaries.

Is it actually constant, or are there tiny changes in pressure, warmth, pulsing, vibration, movement?

It changes, but the pressure is there most of the time, what varies is the intensity, warmth...

Does the sensation itself contain the words anger, avoidance, outcome, or something is wrong?

No, they're just sensations, they're neutral. Like now, if I pay attention just to the sensations in my body I feel the pressure in my throat and chest, but also my stomach dilated. The sensation itself is just that, but then immediately comes a thought / emotions of guilt and shame for having eating too much.

For 30 seconds, forget anger, avoidance, worry, frustration, chest, throat, even “sensation.”
Just experience whatever is actually there.
See what changes, moment by moment?

The mind is very agitated today, I did the exercise a few times today. Some times, I could stay just with the feeling , but most of the time the thoughts were coming up, I got distracted with something else, or I was thinking about how to NOT to think about the words worry, chest, sensation...

I think I'm PMSing, and I get very unsettled, sad, anxious...And doing this exercise of just paying attention to the sensation in the body, for some reason, makes me very uncomfortable. Even though, I do it, and again I just feel the sensations that are not big deal, like the pressure in the chest, it's just that. But then I don't know what is really bothering me. Yesterday was a weird day. We had a storm here, rainy and windy, a perfect day to stay home resting. And that was exactly what I wanted. Doing nothing, watching movies, drawing...But as the day goes, I felt the unsettleness, I wanted to eat comfort food and drink alcohol. at some point the drawings that I was excited didn't make any sense, felt stupid, there was this "emptiness" , very uncomfortable . Even thought, not wanting, I did this exercise of the sensation in the body, and again, the same thing, the same sensations, they, by themselves feels impartial. and I get very confused about what I'm feeling them, because I can't describe in the body what angry, anxious, sad, means besides this pressure, but the emotion "feels" very real

[graceabounds]

Very good Daniela.

Sensations are neutral.

Are thoughts neutral?
I believe we have already established that they cannot be predicted, controlled, etc.

Go back to the sensations first. Bring up that moment yesterday when the drawing suddenly felt stupid and there was this uncomfortable emptiness.

Don’t explain it or investigate why. That just circles back to thought.
Does that sensation itself object to being there?

Or is it only the thought that objects to the sensation after the fact?

What happens when the mind says that what is happening should not be happening?

Much love,
Becca


Also the strong pull to reach for something or distract can also be a sign that there is very important seeing. Explore those sensations too, the ones that itch to reach for something.

[danielak]

Does that sensation itself object to being there?

no

Or is it only the thought that objects to the sensation after the fact?

you're right. The resistance comes from the thoughts.

What happens when the mind says that what is happening should not be happening?

Then comes the frustration, guilt, shame, irritation. All these emotions associated to these kind of thoughts.

Also the strong pull to reach for something or distract can also be a sign that there is very important seeing. Explore those sensations too, the ones that itch to reach for something.

I hear you! and I know that intellectually , and I have been trying to look at it I know there is something hidden that needs to be seeing. And I don't know how to explain this, because I really want to see, but it's so hard, and I don't even know what is hard about it. It's even confusing to explain because honest makes no sense. It's painful, there is the avoidance to look at it, but don't even know what I'm avoiding.
And again, a good example is my addiction for food. it's so present everyday I feel the craving and the guilt, and I cannot get out of this loop, I know there is something for me to see about that, but I can't. or I'm driven by impulse then I miss the gap to observation or when I see I can't find anything besides the discomfort.
This part has been hard for me.

Also, this weekend I was very emotional, confused, lost, let's say that I was in crises. And last week I had some beautiful insights and realizations. There was a sense that I may be getting clearer about this awakening (Would be fair to say clearer rather than closer? ) and during the weekend I was a completely mess. I was reflecting about it and I got the Illona's email talking exactly about that. And it's clear to me that once you're awake the emotions like anger, frustration, sadness will continue to show up. But, maybe, my "expectation" is that things get clearer instead of getting so entangled in the thoughts and be lost in there, as it happened this weekend. and also accepting things as they are, thing that I couldn't do this weekend ether. However, last week I had uncomfortable moments and it was possible to just let it be (maybe the topic wasn't so trigger too). Anyway, Is this expectation real or just another projection?

Just one more observation, not sure what you think about synchronicity, but I have been listening to Ilona's podcast and it feels that it was exactly what I need to hear at the moment or address something specific that we had talked about. Like what happened yesterday, when I was having this crises of "thinking" that I was getting "closer" to this awaking and during the weekend I was lost again. And last week for the first time I heard about these fetters in her podcast (until now I don't really know what that is) but at the same day when I asked you about other podcasts you suggested exactly the one that works with that. Anyway, I have been just observing these synchronicities ...

[graceabounds]

And last week I had some beautiful insights and realizations.

So you want to claim these thoughts but not the others?

I cannot get out of this loop, I know there is something for me to see about that, but I can't.

Is there a loop? Take a look.

Perhaps read back through this dialogue from the beginning.