Running Home

[Emac1122]

Hmmm, can I feel that space in direct experience...yes, I think so. It is definitely a feeling of open awareness. I see thoughts and emotions arise within that space.

Is there any one who comes and goes? Who is in control of attention or 'tuning in'?

I don't think there is anyone in charge . IT seems to be more of a natural state to me. I guess when I think about it, I tune into it. It is kind of like you hear a bird singing but then you stop and actually listen. One you notice the other you actually hear. It seems to be attention or awareness to me. Things move into and out of my awareness. I'm not always consciously aware of everything, such as thoughts, feeling, or even emotions pass through without my really noticing. Although, I have to say I feel like I'm better at noticing things as they come up now, so things register even if I just let them pass or I notice that somethings I want to push away and others seem to grab my attention more.

How is attention known in direct experience?

It seems like awareness to me. I'm aware of thoughts, feelings, sensations, but also things like sights and sounds. I think I've always had this, but the difference now seems to be that I'm more likely to notice thoughts arise or sights or sensations. But they also seem to have a different quality that I'm having difficulty describing. Maybe this is a temporary state.

[graceabounds]

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all direct experience) and report back how you go. Perhaps give me a couple of lists like the above.

Much love!

[Emac1122]

Hi,
We’re visiting friends in New York, so kinda on vacation. Here is a bit of my day.

Breakfast:
Seeing a bowl = seeing image
Smelling coffee =smell
Tasting yogurt = taste
Tasting strawberry = taste
People talking = sound
Smelling bagel cooking = smell

Walking in the forest
Seeing roots on the trail = seeing
Smelling pine = smell
Seeing a blue heron = sight
Birds singing in the area = sound
Looking at the reflections in the water of the trees = sight/image/color
Walking = pressure/feeling

Sitting on the deck
Feeling the warmth of the sun = sensation
Hearing the birds sing = sound
Looking at the lake = seeing
Reading a book = thought

I noticed that my attention would come and go. I would think about noticing then notice the sight, smell, taste, etc. Sometimes I was tuned in, but I would remind myself. This does not always seem true with things like birds singing or particularly striking sights.

[graceabounds]

A trip is a great place to practice this exercise. Keep it up for another day or two.

Simply:
sensation
sound
etc.

Then sit and take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: 
 Notice ALL sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all color. 
 Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them. 
 And notice that you're not making them happen. 
 You're not
conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of. 


And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience. 
 You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts. :)

[Emac1122]

I went on a hike and just try to be present.
Conversation with friends = sound
Seeing the lake = sight
Birds singing = sound
Sun = sensation of warmth

I’ll continue to practice this. I’m more aware of my thoughts, how they come and go, worry about the future, or thoughts about the past, but I’m also better at just watching them and not getting sucked in.
When I’m just sitting being present, seeing, hearing, feeling I don’t notice the “I” doing something things are just happening. It is interesting to note that there was a part of me trying to make a good impression, but I saw this and could feel and did notice the sensations associated with this idea. I didn’t feel like I had to do anything about it, but it was interesting that I noticed it.

[graceabounds]

Very good.

Keep doing this for the duration of your trip then. :)

It is interesting to note that there was a part of me trying to make a good impression, but I saw this and could feel and did notice the sensations associated with this idea.

Nice. What sensations were they? Where were they located?

I’m more aware of my thoughts, how they come and go, worry about the future, or thoughts about the past

When you are back we’ll LOOK into time…

I went on a hike and just try to be present.

What if there is no one trying? :)
Is it a thought “now i will try”…?

[Emac1122]

Hi,
I have been unable to log onto the website for 3 days. I've reached out to help but haven't heard anything back. Currently the page header shows that I have no notifications and when I click on it, it also states I have no notifications. I have not received the link following your postings for some time but have usually been able to check the site and respond.
This time I was able to use the quick link to my posts, but this hasn't always worked. If I haven't responded in a few days, please bear with me, I'm trying to get this worked out.

Nice. What sensations were they? Where were they located?

It felt a bit like this kind of heavy anxious feeling. The anxious feeling is higher heart rate, shallower breaths, and a sense of alertness. I was tired by the end of the trip, I think some of it was that sensation, though by the end I feel like I had started to relax a bit more.

When you are back we’ll LOOK into time…

I'm back :)

What if there is no one trying? :)
Is it a thought “now i will try”…?

It isn't a thought, it is more of an action. I suddenly notice bird sounds, notice trees, or insects, water falling over rocks, the sound, or sight of reflections. They all pop out to me. I now realize that that idea of "trying" is not accurate; it goes back to attention. If I'm lost in my mind then these things go unseen or unheard, but if I stop and become more mindful of my surroundings then these things automatically come into my awareness. Interestingly, both thoughts and the awareness of my surroundings does happen, but I usually don't follow my thoughts they just pass. When I'm having a conversation then listening and responding becomes spontaneous in that space, if that makes sense. I don't feel like I'm trying to predict where the conversation is going or think of a response before the person is finished. This is fairly new for me - I usually interrupt...
I do feel like these are all things that are slowing becoming more automatic to me, being aware, listening with calm and not trying to fix something.
Thank you!

[Emac1122]

Hi,
I have been unable to log onto the website for 3 days. I've reached out to help but haven't heard anything back. Currently the page header shows that I have no notifications and when I click on it, it also states I have no notifications. I have not received the link following your postings for some time but have usually been able to check the site and respond.
This time I was able to use the quick link to my posts, but this hasn't always worked. If I haven't responded in a few days, please bear with me, I'm trying to get this worked out.

Nice. What sensations were they? Where were they located?

It felt a bit like this kind of heavy anxious feeling. The anxious feeling is higher heart rate, shallower breaths, and a sense of alertness. I was tired by the end of the trip, I think some of it was that sensation, though by the end I feel like I had started to relax a bit more.

When you are back we’ll LOOK into time…

I'm back :)

What if there is no one trying? :)
Is it a thought “now i will try”…?

It isn't a thought, it is more of an action. I suddenly notice bird sounds, notice trees, or insects, water falling over rocks, the sound, or sight of reflections. They all pop out to me. I now realize that that idea of "trying" is not accurate; it goes back to attention. If I'm lost in my mind then these things go unseen or unheard, but if I stop and become more mindful of my surroundings then these things automatically come into my awareness. Interestingly, both thoughts and the awareness of my surroundings does happen, but I usually don't follow my thoughts they just pass. When I'm having a conversation then listening and responding becomes spontaneous in that space, if that makes sense. I don't feel like I'm trying to predict where the conversation is going or think of a response before the person is finished. This is fairly new for me - I usually interrupt...
I do feel like these are all things that are slowing becoming more automatic to me, being aware, listening with calm and not trying to fix something.
Thank you!

[Emac1122]

Hi,
I have been unable to log onto the website for 3 days. I've reached out to help but haven't heard anything back. Currently the page header shows that I have no notifications and when I click on it, it also states I have no notifications. I have not received the link following your postings for some time but have usually been able to check the site and respond.
This time I was able to use the quick link to my posts, but this hasn't always worked. If I haven't responded in a few days, please bear with me, I'm trying to get this worked out.

Nice. What sensations were they? Where were they located?

It felt a bit like this kind of heavy anxious feeling. The anxious feeling is higher heart rate, shallower breaths, and a sense of alertness. I was tired by the end of the trip, I think some of it was that sensation, though by the end I feel like I had started to relax a bit more.

When you are back we’ll LOOK into time…

I'm back :)

What if there is no one trying? :)
Is it a thought “now i will try”…?

It isn't a thought, it is more of an action. I suddenly notice bird sounds, notice trees, or insects, water falling over rocks, the sound, or sight of reflections. They all pop out to me. I now realize that that idea of "trying" is not accurate; it goes back to attention. If I'm lost in my mind then these things go unseen or unheard, but if I stop and become more mindful of my surroundings then these things automatically come into my awareness. Interestingly, both thoughts and the awareness of my surroundings does happen, but I usually don't follow my thoughts they just pass. When I'm having a conversation then listening and responding becomes spontaneous in that space, if that makes sense. I don't feel like I'm trying to predict where the conversation is going or think of a response before the person is finished. This is fairly new for me - I usually interrupt...
I do feel like these are all things that are slowing becoming more automatic to me, being aware, listening with calm and not trying to fix something.
Thank you!

[Emac1122]

Hi,
I have been unable to log onto the website for 3 days. I've reached out to help but haven't heard anything back. Currently the page header shows that I have no notifications and when I click on it, it also states I have no notifications. I have not received the link following your postings for some time but have usually been able to check the site and respond.
This time I was able to use the quick link to my posts, but this hasn't always worked. If I haven't responded in a few days, please bear with me, I'm trying to get this worked out.

Nice. What sensations were they? Where were they located?

It felt a bit like this kind of heavy anxious feeling. The anxious feeling is higher heart rate, shallower breaths, and a sense of alertness. I was tired by the end of the trip, I think some of it was that sensation, though by the end I feel like I had started to relax a bit more.

When you are back we’ll LOOK into time…

I'm back :)

What if there is no one trying? :)
Is it a thought “now i will try”…?

It isn't a thought, it is more of an action. I suddenly notice bird sounds, notice trees, or insects, water falling over rocks, the sound, or sight of reflections. They all pop out to me. I now realize that that idea of "trying" is not accurate; it goes back to attention. If I'm lost in my mind then these things go unseen or unheard, but if I stop and become more mindful of my surroundings then these things automatically come into my awareness. Interestingly, both thoughts and the awareness of my surroundings does happen, but I usually don't follow my thoughts they just pass. When I'm having a conversation then listening and responding becomes spontaneous in that space, if that makes sense. I don't feel like I'm trying to predict where the conversation is going or think of a response before the person is finished. This is fairly new for me - I usually interrupt...
I do feel like these are all things that are slowing becoming more automatic to me, being aware, listening with calm and not trying to fix something.
Thank you!

[Emac1122]

Hi,
I have been unable to log onto the website for 3 days. I've reached out to help but haven't heard anything back. Currently the page header shows that I have no notifications and when I click on it, it also states I have no notifications. I have not received the link following your postings for some time but have usually been able to check the site and respond.
This time I was able to use the quick link to my posts, but this hasn't always worked. If I haven't responded in a few days, please bear with me, I'm trying to get this worked out. I've tried to post this more than once the gate times out...

Nice. What sensations were they? Where were they located?

It felt a bit like this kind of heavy anxious feeling. The anxious feeling is higher heart rate, shallower breaths, and a sense of alertness. I was tired by the end of the trip, I think some of it was that sensation, though by the end I feel like I had started to relax a bit more.

When you are back we’ll LOOK into time…

I'm back :)

What if there is no one trying? :)
Is it a thought “now i will try”…?

It isn't a thought, it is more of an action. I suddenly notice bird sounds, notice trees, or insects, water falling over rocks, the sound, or sight of reflections. They all pop out to me. I now realize that that idea of "trying" is not accurate; it goes back to attention. If I'm lost in my mind then these things go unseen or unheard, but if I stop and become more mindful of my surroundings then these things automatically come into my awareness. Interestingly, both thoughts and the awareness of my surroundings does happen, but I usually don't follow my thoughts they just pass. When I'm having a conversation then listening and responding becomes spontaneous in that space, if that makes sense. I don't feel like I'm trying to predict where the conversation is going or think of a response before the person is finished. This is fairly new for me - I usually interrupt...
I do feel like these are all things that are slowing becoming more automatic to me, being aware, listening with calm and not trying to fix something.
Thank you!

[graceabounds]

Yes, system has been down. Our admin has been working on a fix, hopefully it will be better from here on out and less slow as well.

At the top of your thread (have to do this before hitting the reply button) there is a little wrench icon. If you click that there should be an option to Subscribe to the thread, which controls notifications. Click on it once. (If it says unsubscribe there when you first click on the wrench then there is more likely an issue with email delivery.)

Is there any kind of gatekeeper in control of attention?

Here is time.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it
began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or simply thoughts about ‘time’?

[Emac1122]

Is there any kind of gatekeeper in control of attention?

No I don't think there is a gatekeeper. It seems like there are a number of things that control my attention. For example, sounds can draw my attention or thoughts, or sights can all come into my awareness and then draws my attention to them. After my attention notices something it is quickly followed by a label like plane, bird, tree, etc. But, I can also tune out sounds or other distractions, especially if I'm doing something like reading a book. Is that gatekeeping? Is there a difference between our awareness and our attention? It seems like as something moves into my awareness it draws my attention, but that attention. I don't perceive a gatekeeper.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

There is no experience of the 'now' moving along the line of time. Now is just now and now and now etc. that's weird.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

I can't tell, I'm confused. No, thoughts arise, sounds change, things in my visual field change. I don't see a "moment'. I can watch a second hand and see it move, but each second seems independent it seems to be me - my thoughts that ties them together.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

Yes, it seems like it to me. If I'm watching a show it seem slike the storyline progresses. It may be moment to moment. Wait I'm having trouble figuring this out. I see that an event is composed of separate moments, but there is a logical flow they seem connected to me, one following another...

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it
began?

But then the present moment doesn't actually move. I can't find a point where it began.

How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

There seems to be no start or end of the now. It is impossible to grasp, so I don't see any time that it lasts, it just is now and now and now endlessly; one second, as long as it takes me to say now? The now doesn't become the past, I see that the past is a mental construct, thoughts, memories.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or simply thoughts about ‘time’?

My body would say yes, but my mind would say no. When I look at it time seems to be a series of moments linked together, like a bead of pearls with each bead being a moment of 'now', but it seems to be my mind that links it all together. It seems like anything other than the 'now' is a memory constructed by my mind. Does this make it less real? I can remember responding to the earlier questions, but I see that it is my mind that "remembers' what that was like and even that memory is occuring in the now. It is a bit of a strange realization.

[graceabounds]

My body would say yes, but my mind would say no

Aha! We are interested here and always have been, in what can be directly experienced.

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing there are two ways to answer :)

or
Sitting in a room, curtains closed, you wonder what the weather is like outside. You can think about it, look it up on the internet, watch the forecast on TV, call your mother and ask her - or you can simply open the curtains and have a look.

I see that it is my mind that "remembers' what that was like and even that memory is occuring in the now. It is a bit of a strange realization.

It is strange, isn’t it. Here is part two:

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it. Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how is that difference known exactly?


Oh and this:

But, I can also tune out sounds or other distractions, especially if I'm doing something like reading a book

Did the sound disappear?
When you notice it again were you responsible for making the noticing or the reappearance?
In other words when attention moves, can you find an actual entity moving it?

[Emac1122]

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Memory is just thoughts about my past. It is made of both thoughts and emotions. It appears after I prompt it. I have to ask myself, or think about what I did the night before or on that trip last year, etc. Sometimes other things will trigger a memory for example if I’m talking to someone and they mention something we did or talked about the past. A memory is thought and emotion about something I did while a general thought can be about plans, something I’m reading, a response to conversation. It can consist of almost an endless number of topics. It is known that a thought is a memory, because it is something I experienced.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Future thoughts are projections about things that might happen. They are thoughts but also have emotion tied to them, often anxiety or worry, but sometimes expectations of joy and happiness. Thoughts about the future can be triggered, like regular thoughts, by someone talking about something or an upcoming event or planning an event because you’re trying to figure out what might need to be done. I don’t think there is a difference between a general thought and a future thought, because even future thoughts are projections about what might happen. It doesn’t mean it will happen. There is some underlying assumption that it will happen. For example, when I’m planning a trip. I’m making flights, hotel rooms, and try to think about what clothes I’ll need to take. Those are all ‘future’ thoughts, including positive emotions of expecting happiness and fun mixed with some anxiety about things working out. However, experience tells me that future thoughts are landmines. I plan things, but I try to avoid having any expectations that things will be a certain way. Plan without expectation. I don’t see that thoughts about the future are really much different than regular thoughts.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how is that difference known exactly?

The difference is that thoughts about the past are thoughts about something that I experienced while future thoughts are projections that may or may not happen. I don’t really see a difference between regular thoughts and future thoughts.
Though thoughts of the past are about something I experienced, I also recognize that those thoughts can also have some ‘general’ thoughts. This is especially true if I’m “remembering” my childhood or something that happened awhile ago. Those memories can seem more nebulous.

Did the sound disappear?
When you notice it again were you responsible for making the noticing or the reappearance?
In other words when attention moves, can you find an actual entity moving it?

The sound disappeared to me. I don’t think I’m responsible for making the noticing or the reappearance, The sound moves into awareness then I hear it. I can see this idea of an “I” moving my attention, but also see beyond that idea to the no I and just the movement of awareness and seeing the sensation of I.