seeking freedom

[danielak]

Good morning Becca,

I didn't write before because I didn't know what to write. This kind of observation has been difficult, and I haven't had a major realization about it, and I notice how distracted I have been these days. However, one thing that I realized is that when the impulse to eat appears, it's as if I get distracted from the pressure in my chest and my attention goes to my head — I guess my mouth — I start to salivate, I get more excited, instead of anxious, and I guess I feel for a moment more relaxed.

These days I have been very sensitive, I'm PMSing and it affects my mood. I felt sad and irritated, and I noticed that to avoid this discomfort I was hanging out a lot with friends and drinking more too.

I had a consultation with a nutritionist last week, and because of a health issue in my intestine, I'm going to have to do a restrictive diet for a month. And when I do some kind of diet, my relationship with food changes. So I'm curious how it's going to be.

[graceabounds]

when the impulse to eat appears, it's as if I get distracted from the pressure in my chest

Tell me more about the pressure. Is it big or small? Does it move or stay still? Where are its edges?

As for the diet, keep up the exercise about replacing the letter when thoughts arise around eating or not.

"I want to have this"
->
"O want to have this"
Can "O" want to have anything?
No.
How then could "I" want to have anything?

etc.

[danielak]

Tell me more about the pressure. Is it big or small? Does it move or stay still? Where are its edges?

This pressure is much more present than I could imagine. Since it started to be noticed, I realize that it's just there, like now. So, it's not always what makes me crave food, at least not just this.
The pressure feels like the size of a tennis ball, maybe a bit smaller, it's like a contraction. It's located at the center of my chest, between my breasts.
Yesterday in bed, I was feeling it very intensely, and when it happens I have trouble fallowing asleep. Sometimes I can just be with the pressure, just let it stay, like now.

I'll keep looking at it. And I like the letter exercise. I'll report later or tomorrow how it goes.

[graceabounds]

I see. The pressure is often simply there. It doesn’t necessarily mean “I want food.” So don’t connect them :)

Can you stay with it, letting it be exactly as it is without needing it to disappear?

[danielak]

Hi Becca,

Can you stay with it, letting it be exactly as it is without needing it to disappear?

Kind of yes. I notice that this pressure is much more present in my daily life than I thought, and I'm getting used to staying with it, being ok with it. However, I notice it's associated with different emotions. Yesterday I was upset with myself for not being able to really support a client in a coaching session (I'm also a life coach), and that really hit me — thoughts like "I'm not a good coach" are very frequent in my head, and after the session I felt the pressure in my chest, but it was quite different, like a knife going deeper into my chest. I could also just be with it, but the upset, the disappointment was still very uncomfortable.

What helped, actually, was that I used this technique of calling "me" "O," and it created a certain gap, as in "O is not a good coach," and that helped me see it as just a mental pattern and not be so identified with it.

In relation to food, because of the diet thing, I was thinking in advance about what I was going to eat instead of what I wanted to eat — kind of preparing my meals in advance with the things I can eat. That anticipation helped with the craving. Even so, I was in a kind of automatic mode, in a rush as well, so I didn't really practice the "O self" with it.

The pressure is often simply there. It doesn’t necessarily mean “I want food.” So don’t connect them :)

Is it really that simple? Because I'm starting to be present with the pressure, and it doesn't necessarily stop me from craving. And the same with feeling "not good enough," as I described above — I could feel the pain in my chest, it was much stronger, but I could be with it, and doing so didn't necessarily stop me from feeling bad about myself...not sure what I'm missing here

[graceabounds]

Hi Daniela,

Have you heard of Byron Katie? She offers a series of questions to work with beliefs.

1. Is it true? (Answer yes or no. If no, move to 3.)
2. Can you absolutely know that it’s true?
3. How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought?
4. Who or what would you be without the thought?

After the four questions, she has you do the turnaround, restating the original thought in reverse (to the opposite, to yourself, or to another person) and finding at least three genuine examples of how the turnaround is as true or truer than the original statement.

For example the thought “He should listen to me” becomes
Turnaround to opposite: “He shouldn’t listen to me”
Turnaround to self: “I should listen to myself” / “I should listen to him”

Try it with the not good enough thoughts and see how it goes… perhaps it will expand the gap that has begun to form there.

-Becca

[danielak]

HI Becca,

These questions are very similar to the method of coaching I use :), I have seen her before, but never went deeper into her work, Maybe I should check it out. I did the exercise and it worked, when you put this thought of "I'm not good enough" in perspective, it's possible to see that it's not true..
Also these last two day there has been more attention to the thought process, and using the O self is helping to create this gap, as it happened with the exercise.
I notice that at the beginning of this process "through the gate", when I read the book and started to work with you, something opened up for me, as if discovering a new world, now I know what you're talking about when you say no self. and it became possible to experience it at some moments. But these days, it's like living my old life as usual, not to say that it's the same, because, as I said, something has already shifted. Even though this "realization process" is on my radar all the time, it feels that things are "accommodating" and I wonder if that can be the mind finding a comfort zone... not sure if there is something that I should be practicing/ experimenting

[graceabounds]

Hello Daniela,

now I know what you're talking about when you say no self.
and it became possible to experience it at some moments

Know (thought) or SEE?

Is it ever not?

Think of Santa. As a child, you can genuinely experience Santa as an actual person. You hear the story, see the presents, maybe even see him and sit on his lap and the whole thing feels completely real.

Then one day you see through it. You recognize there never was a separate Santa sneaking around doing all this.

But you don’t need to keep experiencing “no Santa” to know the truth. And you don’t need to replace Santa with a new character called “No Santa.”

So… is all this seen through? Can you say with certainty that there is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be?

If so, then yes this is acclimatizing of the organism and there are other illusions to explore that become ripe to see through once there is no I to hold them so tightly.

With love,
Becca

[danielak]

Yesterday I staid with your reflection during the day.... And I couldn't get to a clear answer. It's true that I can see (not just know though thinking) that there is no self. There is this experience of being alive, senses are being felt, thoughts are happening and all happening in the present moment. At the beginning when I first experience that a "click" happened. Before I was always thinking about the future, the things that I should be doing, where I wanted to be, as if I had to achieve something to "become". After this realization immediately I stopped chasing the future, and started to live much more in the present, and focused on what is possible now. It doesn't mean that I don't have dreams and goals, but the anxiety and frustration of not "being there yet" stopped and now I'm enjoying my life much more, living more in the present and not worrying so much about the future. Then I revisited some teachings from the "gurus" that I follow , and it felt like now there was a different understanding, like I got it what they're talking about. That was a huge moment.
Said that, this experience of life happening thought this human being it's felt like that in some moments, not all the time. Actually,, most of the time the thoughts became so real, there are an entanglement in it and it feels like there is a me, and it's a very strong identification with this I, specially with some particular thoughts. Now, thinking of Santa Claus, if the real realization is once you really see that there is no self you can't possibly identify with it again, then I don't know where I'm at . Maybe a parallel with the movie analogy, that I'm watching a movie, I know it's a movie, but it's so captivating that you forget it's just a movie, can be something like that?

So… is all this seen through? Can you say with certainty that there is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be?

I don't feel ready to answer this question. I have seen that this's the very last question Ilona makes lol, and the thing is that I know the answer, but now sure yet if I feel it

[graceabounds]

In the middle of the entanglement, when you stop, and LOOK, do you see?

if the real realization is once you really see that there is no self you can't possibly identify with it again, then I don't know where I'm at

Is there a future being chased where there is certainty? Where everything is precisely located and known? Would these things be found in direct experience or in thought?

[danielak]

In the middle of the entanglement, when you stop, and LOOK, do you see?

This conversation is keeping me very focus on this “observation” . What I noticed is that when I stop, it creates a little gap from the entanglement , and I can notice it’s just a thought, for a second it lost it meaning because it’s noticed that it doesn’t exist at the present moment. At the present moment, I’m walking on the street, hearing the cars passing by, and the thoughts are just happening. But almost instantly there is the thought that I’m in the present moment, I have thoughts like “I could observe my thoughts, how interesting”, “I’m experiencing the moment”, “maybe I’m really being able to just look and see the true” and I notice that I get entangle in the thoughts about thinking. Actually, I sense that I got identified with the “no self” . But at the same time it’s though thought that we process things no?
I’m confused. But at the same time It’s been a good look.

Is there a future being chased where there is certainty? Where everything is precisely located and known? Would these things be found in direct experience or in thought?

Yes, I guess I have been changing for this future. And you’re right, it can be found just in direct experience , but I guess I have been looking for in thoughts. But still, this question remains unanswered for me.