jennifermaurice

[ashton]

Hi Jenny!

I just wanted to check in on day 1 of my recovery - I had COVID. Just like old times.

I hope you Feel better!

I had COVID

Can you even see the symptoms that arose, just arose spontaneously without your permission as well? Lol. 😅
To make an insight out of your troubles hahaha.

What did I notice? I didn't observe much or practice anything - I went back to youtube and news overload, and deeper into 'myself'.

It sounds like that got noticed!

Even the retracting back so to speak...
The letting off the throttle...
Even that, too, just happened. Yeah?

did notice the difference though, and I prefer the former week where I was

What about that preference that arose?
Is there anything inherent about it? (Rhetorical - don't answer)
Even the preference, can you see, even that arose all on its own too, yeah?
And the buying into it? (Perfectly okay!)
The buying into it also just arose on its own too?

moving more into presence or the moment or really what if feels like is spaciousness.

And what about this spaciousness?
Just arose too, same too, all on its own? Never asked for your permission to arise, did it? It just did all on its own?

I'm keen to keep working with you if that's ok.

I'm keen on not stopping! Hahaha.
You're doing great! 😃

I'd like to understand how you see it

And what was this?
A thought?
And it got bought into?
Both of which just arose all on their own?
Oh my!

Reflect back on it.

what about feelings? I've been feeling a little lonley lately.

You even noticed the arising of lonelyness.
Same too, how'd it come to be?
You didn't ask it to arise, did you?

I do hope it doesn't feel so bad of course

I don't understand why I feel 'incomplete' as a single woman

Let's break this down into a chain of events:
1. Feeling of incomplete arose
2. Not understanding why arose
3. Story arose tying it together with being a "single woman" in this case
4. Buying into it arose

Each and every one of these things....
Did you say "Hey, experience! Make it so I feel incomplete! Then after that, make it so I don't understand why that arose or why I feel that way! Then after that, glue together a story that relates this incompleteness with my being single! Then after that, buy into the story!"

Did you say all of that before it all happened?
Or did it all just unfold that way?
It never asked your permission to unfold that way, did it?
Experience just unfolded that way, yeah?

Reflect back.
Look back at it.
It just happened that way, yeah?
Maybe it didn't feel so good.
And if that was the case, can you see that even that too just happened as it did? All on its own?

You wouldn't have prompted reality with "Hey! Make sure not feeling good about it arises", would you?

I'm being a little facetious. But really... seriously! Take a look at it. It just happened that way, didn't it?

I read a Krisnamurti quote tonight that said 'lonliness comes from the self' which makes sense.

I have no idea where loneliness comes from.
But I know that when loneliness is there, loneliness is there. So long as noticing is also there, hah!

But I'd love to hear your perspective, story and way you work the ideas.

Hah!


Sincerely,
Lonely or not,
Ash ;)

[jeffbuckley]

Hi Ash,

Can you even see the symptoms that arose, just arose spontaneously without your permission as well?

Yes, they did arise. And there was no permission granted. Ah the spiritual clarity of Covid ;)

It sounds like that got noticed! Even the retracting back so to speak...The letting off the throttle...

Yes, I notied it again today, retracting into my opinions and identity politics. Sharing my opinions and experiences. Reflecting back my body felt 'tense' afterward, and I felt it was a waste of time - time I could have been listening and feeling or directly experiencing my friend - what she had to say, the energy, the atmosphere without dominating the conversation? Maybe one day. I don't want to dissolve, but politics isn't playful when you're wrapped up in being right.

1. Feeling of incomplete arose
2. Not understanding why arose
3. Story arose tying it together with being a "single woman" in this case
4. Buying into it arose

Yes, and again in the example above. Feeling of distress arose, story about political ideology and tying it into my cultural identity in this case, buying into it arose (and need to feel objectivly right in my argument arose?). Yes, it all just happened. I didn't ask for any of it. One thing led to another in a chain of events that left me feeling awful. Which arose at the end in reflection of the day.

Ok, so these feelings, thoughts, sensations, stories arise and fall - but some sequences leave you feeling uplifted and free, some leave you feeling constricted and annoyed - isn't the purpose of this to reduce suffering? I'm not sure how noticing everything supports any sort of change or personal shift. Yes, this is another thought/question arising.

I can't see it. All I can see so far is the story or identity or planning the future or lamenting the past feels constrictive, where seperating out 'this is a thought', 'oh here's a feeling' and not turning them into 'stories about Jenny' feels more moment to moment or present or just lovlier. Is that the point of this? By reducing the 'story' or the 'buying into it' - essentially by seeing what it happening - one can be more present with direct expereince?

[ashton]

Jennifer!

Ok, so these feelings, thoughts, sensations, stories arise and fall - but some sequences leave you feeling uplifted and free, some leave you feeling constricted and annoyed

THIS!
THIS!
THIS!
YES!
THIS!

And you can see precisely that even sometimes in seeing certain sequences...
The messy ones
The ugly ones
The painful ones

That sometimes the seeing it...
Doesn't even always result in a chain of events that generates relief!

You see that!
Clearly!
You see that!

... And so it very just is!

Messy
Ugly
Not the wish you wanted

OMG!

And so it just painfully is sometimes, yeah?

Seeing the pain as just pain that is there...
That just arose...
That isn't going away even with clear seeing...

Omg!

Helplessness may arise!
Misery may arise!

"Ashton this can't be it!!! 😡😠🤬" may arise
"Ashton I HATE THAT THIS IS THE CASE!!!" may arise

And to that I say:
And even that, just arose on its own, yeah?

Even the lack of relief when you *really* want relief...
May just arise all on its own yeah?
Without asking for your permission, yeah?

You just find it there?

Woah.

- Ash :) ;) :)

[jeffbuckley]

Hi Ash,

That sometimes the seeing it...
Doesn't even always result in a chain of events that generates relief!

You see that!

Yes I see that. No relief and in fact, the reflecting may be creating more discord...
i.e 'why do I do that', 'what is that feeling', 'how can I avoid it in the future' - but this is all a part of being a consciuos being right?

We want to avoid pain and the 'review' process is to help us get to a place where we, in this example 'don't engage in political discussions with friends who have different life experiences'. And today, I didn't. I was about to, but I remembered I had made a rule. See - me, I made the rule and chose a different path today.

Even the lack of relief when you *really* want relief...
May just arise all on its own yeah?
Without asking for your permission, yeah?

If this is the point, accepting everything that arises, even the 'trying to work out how to avoid the pain' arises, then why bother - just live in the moment and accept what arises. Is that the point? I guess that is freeing in a sense, but it's what already was.

[ashton]

Gm Jenny,

the reflecting may be creating more discord...

And so sometimes the chain of events may be:
1. Reflecting arises
2. Discord arises
3. Thoughts arise of "why do I do that", etc.

And even still...
Did you ask for any of those things?
Or did they all just arise, too, without ever asking your permission to enter your experience.

Look at those too.
Reflect back.
Report your findings.

We want to avoid pain and the 'review' process is to help us get to a place where we, in this example 'don't engage in political discussions with friends who have different life experiences'.

Might it be the case where sometimes there may arise
1. The wanting to engage in a political discussion arises
2. Thoughts arise of "mmm, but that goes against my rule"
3. Thoughts opposite to that arise of "but I really want to this time"
4. All of that gets noticed arises
5. Realization how disorienting that "vice" is arises, how back and fourth the thoughts are.
6. Choices gets presented still arises
7. Decision gets made still arises

It could definitely happen where you could have a rule of "I won't do x"
But maybe x thing happens

And so it does.
Can you see that no matter if it does or doesn't, it's just an arising?
That it came to be all on its own?
Each and every one of those chains? Just all entered your reality on their own, on their own time, own accord, own volition, without regard to your ideals?

Look back.
See for yourself.
Reflect.

And today, I didn't. I was about to, but I remembered I had made a rule. See - me, I made the rule and chose a different path today.

Can you see that the remembering arose all on its own?
All on its own.
It just...
Poof...
Popped up.
One second it wasn't there.
Then boom.
Remembering.

Same too,
A firm (or unfirm) decision wasn't there.
Then,
Poof...
Popped up.
One second it wasn't there.
Then boom.
Decision was there.

Even if unsteadyness arose after.
Okay...
Even if it did..
Poof.
Popped up...
One second it wasn't there.
Then boom.
That too,
Now unsteadyness was there.

Look back on all of these things.
I'm probably a broken record at this point.

Hell, thoughts and agreeability probably just strongly arose that "yeah no kidding you are a fucking broken record" arose

If so...
It just arose, yeah?
You didn't tell it to arise, yeah?
Lmao.
Anyways

If this is the point, accepting everything that arises

What else is there to do? (Rhetorical, unless this time, you feel inclined to answer)

just live in the moment and accept what arises. Is that the point? I guess that is freeing in a sense, but it's what already was.

But it's what already was!

😀

All of it though!
All of it!

Even the times when it may arise where it doesn't feel freeing!
Fuck those times suck!
But that's all there is in those times: feeling trapped and suckiness. Yuck. That sucks. And so it sucks.

Maybe sometimes it arises where a thought comes to be of "fuck it, I'm talking politics today!" And buying into it arises, and passion arises, and decision to do so arises, and so it arises that you talk politics.
And so it is!

I don't know what will come up for you.
All I know is that whatever comes up,

... is something that arose all on its own
Each and every last bit of it...

Do you?

Ash.

[jeffbuckley]

Hi Ash,

I read your response a few days ago so I won't go into it piece-meal but I will explore my conclusion if that's ok.

What I determined from your insights is that everything happens on it's own. Even what I think of as my will - is happening on it's own.

Thus - there is no 'real' free will - everything just happens. There might be the illussion of free-will as validated by the 'sequences' - but I haven't thought this through.

I am kinda gobsmacked at the idea that the 'me' is the observation of the 'happenings' which must be destined or 'nature' or something that just happens. It's out of control!!

So, before my head explodes, I'll send this off to you for your thoughts.

Which I thank you for.

[ashton]

Well Jenny, I think it's time for questions! So here goes nothing:

Let’s run through these questions and see if there’s anywhere that needs further investigation.
Be relaxed. Don't answer from thought. Describe experience..

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Ash :)

[jeffbuckley]

Hi Ash,

I hope this isn't the end of my journey - I'll miss this exploration and your wonderful style!

Either way, my answers below:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No. There never was.
It's hard to acknowledge, considering I've spent so much time and energy creating a historical storyline, foundation for preferences, triggers etc. The feeling of pointless is arising!

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

Thoughts mostly. And any kind of projection into the past or the future. (In fact, one day recently I said to myself - 'Don't think of anything in the past or the future - and there was nothing to think about! Life changed when I started noticing certain things 'arising' like scratching myself or unconsciously eating chips - and I started realising how much in my experience happens 'naturally' or 'without thought or control or me making it happen'. The process extended that to thoughts themselves, feelings etc until I realised that's all there was (thanks Ash!)

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
It feels like a tickle. A waking up but in a jolt rather than a permanent state. Yes, I can realise it, but life seems to go on in the context of 'Jenny' if I am not in that state of reflection. When I am in the state of reflextion, life feels lighter, more spacious, kind of funny really - curious to see what happens.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

The last email when I was asking about controlling the talk about politics, and knowing what it does to my equanimity and wanting to stop now that I understood it as a chain of events - but the breadown that followed made it meaningless becasue it was happening the way it was happening i.e 'Maybe sometimes it arises where a thought comes to be of "fuck it, I'm talking politics today!" And buying into it arises, and passion arises, and decision to do so arises, and so it arises that you talk politics.
And so it is!'


5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.
I don't know how it all works but it feels like an unfolding of Jenny naturally. Like a tree grows or a baby suckles, it feels like all of these things just happen naturally - an expression of life that is Jenny

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
I don't know, but if I am in directly experiencing with the present moment, I'll know what I'm responsible for. For example, if my phone rings, I'll answer it. If I'm hungry, I'll get somethign to eat. If my sister asks me to help her, I'll schedule a time in my diary. I guess I'm responsible for whatever the moment calls for - externally or from withing via my own feelings or needs arising.

6) Anything to add?
I used to spend a great deal of time talking to friends about 'me'. My thoughts, my feelings, my 'life'. Since starting this process, I havnen't had the need to share the 'Jenny-ness' and it has been quite freeing. I'm not as interested in talking about what' s happening in my 'story' becasue really, what's the point? It comes out when I'm engaged in a conversation of course, quite naturally, but I don't go seeking the conversations anymore.

Ash :)

[ashton]

Hi Jenny,

A fellow guide was curious regarding what you said here:

"I guess I'm responsible for whatever the moment calls for - externally or from within via my own feelings or needs arising."

Say more about that please... What is responsility in the sense you use the word in your response? And what is it, what is the I, that is responsible?

I hope this isn't the end of my journey - I'll miss this exploration and your wonderful style!

Not to worry :)
More unfolding will happen, it always does.
You'll know where to find me, lol.

-Ash😆

[jeffbuckley]

Hi Ash,

Sorry for the delay, I've just been going with the flow.

Say more about that please... What is responsility in the sense you use the word in your response? And what is it, what is the I, that is responsible?

I forget the original question, but actually if there is no 'one' controlling anything, how anyone be responsible? I mean that scares the hell out of me, but isn't it so?