Already liberated, just want to help

[thisthatis]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Just that there is no inner puppeteer, no homunculus, this being just happens spontaneously and while there is seemingly a perspective and senses, those do not 'belong' to an individual inside the body. Life is a spontaneous dance, and, 'liberation' (as seen here) is not a solution to anything. It's the end of solutions. Nothing to gain for 'self.'

What are you looking for at LU?
I was here over 10 years ago with an old e-mail address. I have no access to all of that anymore, so I decided to reregister anyway even though the guidelines ask not to. Hope this is fine considering the time that passed. I'm not looking for anything really, I'd actually like to engage in guiding others in this, and become better at doing so. I'd like to help some people with it in 'my real life' and would like to get some practice.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Nothing. I'm already done, sorry. And since I have to write at least 200 characters I will just continue to repeat in as convoluted a way as possible that I am not looking for anything, I don't expect anything, and there's no one to expect anything either.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Lots. Meditation, LU a long time ago, practices with books I've bought over time. I know most of the nondual literature I'd say.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
1

[Anastacia42]

Hi, thank you. We can always use more guides.

Do you recall your login name? We can ask an admin to search. Or you can answer those last questions again, just so we have something to go by.

Then ask a guide to be your mentor & choose a first client. The mentor will review your posts before you send them for the first client or two. Then you're good to go.

Loving

[thisthatis]

Hi Anastacia,

I already discussed with Tanya that unfortunately I don't remember my username from back then. It's okay though, I'm good with just going through some checks. :-)

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Just answer these:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[thisthatis]

1) no

2) the illusion of separate self is mostly narrative, thoughts, uninvestigated. Like moving my hands on the keyboard, or deciding to look away, deciding to get up to get a drink before I finish this response, it's all just coming up. There used to be a belief or thoughts that there was choice there, a "self" in this body, that was choosing this or that. There was an idea too about automatic thoughts and conscious reflection. But on closer inspection, that distinction does not really exist. Of course the interesting thing is that it's all self-liberating, because there's no one reflecting, inspecting, and what have you. Those things don't belong to anyone either, and also just happen. It does seem "over here" like there's a benefit to having an everyday sense of self as well, instead of going nondual-speak 24/7, but then, that's also just an apparent preference that comes up here.

3) Oh well, so I've been seeing this for quite some time now (over 10 years)... but I remember at the time it was pretty amazing and took some time to really sink in. Like there kept popping up these pockets of self, so to speak. I mean that even still happens sometimes, like the trance returns, apparently, but then it is recognized again. It feels mostly freeing, but in a way it also doesn't really feel that different from before.

4) Gosh... I don't really remember that. I suspect it had something to do with the observer position or some "me" narrative that wanted to own nondual understanding.

5)

Decision: decision is not a thing, really. It's only apparent. On the relative level we could speak about a decision, but on the level of seeing, it doesn't exist. For instance, a thought could come up that would indicate a certain decision with a certain behavior to follow it was made. But then, entirely different behavior follows, or a new thought comes, contradicting the previous one. All of that just happens. Decision is just an illusion.

Intention: Intention is actually the same as decision in that sense. An intention arises, seemingly, as a thought. Wanting to do this or that. But I observe that quite often it is not followed by an actual action, or a new thought with a different "decision" appears. The decisions and actions that are followed through in themselves also simply happen, spontaneously. The whole notion of deciding is a narrative that just doesn't hold up upon close inspection.

Free will: Well this gets kind of boring because of course decision and intention have a lot to do with free will. If we want to be punny we could say there's an expression of free will in the spontaneous arising and doing of the bodymind, but it's not a will in the sense of being directed by anything or anyone. It's free though, and it does seem to want something in some sense :-) (don't take this too seriously...)

[Anastacia42]

Okay, as we probably did 10 years ago, your responses will be shared with other guides who may have questions.

Stay tuned!

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Another guide pointed out that you skipped the "how does it work?" portion of question 2. Could you say a little about that?

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Thank ypu,

[thisthatis]

Hi,

O... I thought my message did answer how it works. Let's try again.

How it works is that thoughts talk about a me, a self, and with that talking about and referring to a self all the time, seem to come from a self as a source. A self that thinks, a self that does, a self that is in the body, chooses, and so on. While thoughts do have a certain kind of existence, as do feelings, and all the sense experiences, "self" cannot be found. There is no referent, only the process of referring, in thoughts. Those thoughts can also be subtle. It's not always chatty thoughts. Sometimes it's more like a "sense" that e.g. I did the hand moving, there is a me behind the eyes, and so on. That sense, is also only that. A sense, an experience, part of the illusion.

Looking forward to your response.

[Anastacia42]

I'll see what she says.

[Anastacia42]

Okay. No more questions. You can proceed with finding a mentor.

We got lots of comments that we could definitely use more guides.

Loving,

[thisthatis]

Great, thanks Stacy.
So do I get added to the guides area on this forum?
I don't want to use Facebook (can't register anonymously there, I tried and they blocked me, and I don't want to make a "real" account). There's a guide area here on the forum right?

[Anastacia42]

Yes. We don't use it anymore.

There is a thread in the LU guides forum on Facebook discussing how to get around people like you who won't go to Facebook.

Apparently there are 3 or 4 others.

I don't know how that will go.

Thanks,

[Anastacia42]

FYI if you're interested.

Seeing Through The Self Illusion

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Link to all monthly Zoom Meetings

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With love,

Ilona