A recent seeker

[gagliano1770]

Dear Rowena,

Thank you for your message. I appreciate it very much.

Just let a "memory" be there, and look at it, simply, in your direct experience. And remember, you don't have to know, or come up with some explanation as you answer the questions!!

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is present.

What is the memory ‘made of’? What is actually happening in your direct experience?

It's made of mental images, which aren't even continuous or entire pictures of what happened. They're more like snippets of images of the setting, sounds, and feeling.

Now, think of a flying pink elephant flying across the room, let that image go, and now return to the memory thought.

Without a thought to interpret, what is the actual difference between those two thoughts?

None that I can tell.

Is there a difference, other than the content?

No.

How is it known that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

I don't know. There must be something, though, because if we weren't able to tell if a memory thought referred to something that happened we'd have a hard time. I suppose this actually happens for some people.

Does it require further thought to affirm the apparent "reality" of the memory thought

No.

Now, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

The same as what the memory thought was made of - snippets of sights, sounds, and other sensations.

What is the difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

None.

How is it known that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that might happen?

Past experience?

What is this information based on?

Memories.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the difference between the thoughts about past and future?

None that I can tell. They're made of the same stuff.

If there is difference, how is that difference is known exactly?

Is a past event present anywhere in direct experience,
or is there only this present appearance with stories about a past?

There is only the present with stories about the past. Sometimes intoxicating stories, but stories nevertheless.

Any further comments?

Even though my posting here is sporadic at best, I will be participating in Stephan Bodian's School for Awakening starting in September, and I listen to podcasts and read about non-dual awakening. Thank you for your patience and for the "no pressure" assurances.

All best,
Glen

[Noro]

Hello Glen,

Good to hear from you!

How is it known that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

I don't know. There must be something, though, because if we weren't able to tell if a memory thought referred to something that happened we'd have a hard time. I suppose this actually happens for some people.

Even neuroscience doesn't know how thoughts or memory works! No thought has ever been found in a brain!! But for our purposes, looking from direct experience, memories are thoughts about the past, and the only way that we could 'believe' that it has happened is because there is another thought or collection of thoughts that say so. But think about what an illusionist or skilled magician in a theatre can do to persuade people that something happened!!

How is it known that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that might happen?

Past experience?

Saying past experience is conjecture, it is not direct experience, it is an assumption as per consensus reality.
How is past experience known?
How is anything known in direct experience?
What says what is, in direct experience?

What is this information based on?

Memories.

What is memory made of? Can you see we are now circling back to the beginning

REMINDER: It is always helpful to go through the list of options open to you in direct experience to get clarity. (Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touch/body sensations, thinking (without any content/concepts/stories)

Even though my posting here is sporadic at best, I will be participating in Stephan Bodian's School for Awakening starting in September, and I listen to podcasts and read about non-dual awakening. Thank you for your patience and for the "no pressure" assurances.

Thanks Glen, I have understood that you want to take it slowly and I am very happy to go with this, and we can touch base from time to time, even if you are not in a position to do inquiry.

Here's another one similar to look at regarding memory, it is building on the last exercise by bringing in body sensations.

MEMORY 2
Take a pause in between each step.

Bring up a thought about the past.
What makes the past feel real for you. What counts as evidence?
When you say "now", what do you mean. What does "now" feel like.
Does time feel like a line or a sequence. If so, how is that known?

Pause in between each step.

Choose a simple, ordinary memory from yesterday or today.
Say it out loud to yourself in one sentence. Then stop. pause

Now bring the memory up and describe what is actually present *NOW* in your direct experience.
Take your time, and don't tell the story!

You may notice an image
You may notice words or inner talk
You may notice sensation
You may notice mood or flavor

Notice its quality, is it clear or vague.
Does it hold still, or does it shift?

Now notice if there's also a simple feeling of certainty: "this happened."
If it's here, name it simply as "feeling."
Can a feeling actually be certain?
How can you prove that the memory actually happened?
Does a feeling indicate anything to prove that the memory actually happened?

Now do the check out loud:
Is the past event present anywhere in experience?
or is there only this present appearance with some sensations and thoughts with content about the 'past' ?

Now choose a different ordinary memory and do the same again.

When you have time, let me know how you got on.

Warm regards,
Rowena