seeking freedom

[danielak]

I'm having trouble to describe these "strong thoughts" from direct experience perspective. Yesterday happened the same, many thoughts, I was anxious and "I" couldn't notice what was really happening, the direct experience, as not being present, or "lost" in the mind, as I have mentioned before. At night it has been difficult to sleep, too many thoughts and "I" was trying to relax (as if there is a controller) and I wouldn't. I had to listen to a guided meditation to be able to relax and sleep. As I write what I can see that I was resisting to the anxious thoughts, trying to change it, and I couldn't (as if there was a controller), to a point that I had to listen to guided meditation to be able to move my attention to a different thought and pay attention to my body.

[graceabounds]

it comes this impulse of not wanting to stop and look

Yes, this can happen. So I am going to ask that you post here daily for a while, even if it is just to check in and say you are still working on an exercise or what you are noticing about it.

What is actually present when that impulse appears?

Right before eating, what is there? Not why or what it means.
Just what is here?

The interesting event is the instant before distraction succeeds. That tiny moment is the laboratory. Nothing needs to change. We’re not trying to prevent emotional eating just see it in high resolution.

I I couldn't notice a difference from the first to the second exercise.But in both cases I cold notice having deep breaths, I was more attentive to what was happening in my body, but not sure if it was different or if I wasn't paying attention to the difference.

Your answers about the labeling exercise are excellent but this interests me. Here is another exercise to explore that focuses on the sensations in the body. If this feels like too much on top of the above then save it for tomorrow.


Find a comfortable place to sit or lie. Take in a few deep breaths to settle the dust and then relax for a bit. Spend only 30 to 60 seconds on each component of this exercise.

Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit.
Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.

Now point your index finger to where Daniela is located.
Touch the exact location of Daniela.

Were you able to find and feel Daniela in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?

What sensations did you feel in your body that identified Daniela (If any)?

Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

[danielak]

Yesterday I was actually even more anxious, I was looking forward to see your email, the thinking was like if I didn't know what to do, overthinking, worry about other things, trying to focus on the exercises or thinking that I shouldn't be overthinking and worrying about things that are going on. When I go t your email, instantly I started to cry, I left the station and continue to cry, I didn't know why I was crying, funny that just by writing you this I started to cry again. as if an energy needed to be released, as if there is a tightness somewhere that I can't identify directly, as if I need to release the thoughts themselves.

What is actually present when that impulse appears?

Yesterday I could notice a moment that I had an impulse to buy a croissant, which was during the moment I was describing before, and what was present were thoughts, tension, and imagining eating something feels like releasing some of that. I'm not sure how precise I can be to describe it, but in direct experience was basically many thoughts

Were you able to find and feel Daniela in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?

The impression is that Daniela is somewhere in the head, but I can't point exactly where, I can't find anything direct, I can't find anything at all.

[graceabounds]

Let the tears come, no need to interpret, it will flow as it does. We are turning your whole world upside down here after all.

what was present were thoughts, tension, and imagining eating something feels like releasing some of that. I'm not sure how precise I can be to describe it, but in direct experience was basically many thoughts

Thoughts appearing is direct experience. Any of the content of the thoughts is not direct experience, they are fantasies. Are you clear about this difference?

So where/what is the tension? Where in the body does it appear?

Please find a quiet place and a quiet time.

Sit or lay down and relax. Close your eyes and relax.
Can you attend to sensation exclusively? Not minding thought babbling about this and that? Not minding thought labeling sensation for a bit?

Thought may tell: "I am lying here" or "My body is lying here" or "A body is lying here". But could this be known from pure sensation?

Thought might suggest: "There is a soft pressure against the back". But could you know about "pressure" or "back" from pure sensation?

Once arrived there, while ONLY attending to sensation, please have a look at the following questions:
Can be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?

Is the Daniela in the head anything other than a sensation plus an unrelated mental image?

[danielak]

Thoughts appearing is direct experience. Any of the content of the thoughts is not direct experience, they are fantasies. Are you clear about this difference?

Yes. That's very clear, direct experience are the thinking process and the 5 senses, any interpretation of those are content of the thought, which is not direct experience. That's clear.
Sometimes I write what I'm thinking about to try to explain where I am at. Even thought I know they're just thoughts, while I'm passing thought a situation or entangled in the thoughts, it looks very real.

So where/what is the tension? Where in the body does it appear?

Many times I can feel where in the body the tension is, but in these situations I couldn't find it. It's weird, I scanned my body and there was anything different, but when I cried , I felt a warm wave passing thought my head , my eyes, and a deep breath coming out, and a relaxation in my chest. I also feel that I'm having trouble in pay attention to my body while my thoughts are going wild.
And I'm much better today, I definitely feel shaken with this process, but things are calmer now..

And I did the exercise and could stay just with the sensations. Once I thought about the questions about how tall, shape, size, that was already a thought and trying to find out about that was exactly the opposite of just being with the sensations, so if I was only attending to sensation I couldn't "analyze" the sensations to describe it.

Is the Daniela in the head anything other than a sensation plus an unrelated mental image?

It looks like. I can't find a Daniela, it's becoming clearer that thoughts, sensations, movements are just happening, that Daniela is just an idea. But it's not sustained or permanent.

[graceabounds]

But it's not sustained or permanent

Just keep looking now. and now. and now. :)

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colors and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (perhaps legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

[danielak]

Yes! this exercise helped me to see through experience the difference between labeling an sensation and the sensation itself. The sensation is only that: a sensation, anything added to it is a thought, a mental image. And the experience about feeling the sensation and seeing the body, was very interesting. I have a glimpse of disassociation from body x sensation. For a moment, I could realize that my body is just a mental image. I mean it does exist,, but the sensations doesn't need to be "explained" as body. Not sure if I'm being able to explain myself...
I notice something interesting, I was a bit anxious , and wanted to be very dedicated in doing the exercise. So I took asome time to do it, and wanted to do it "well:, as something important, however even taking it so "serious" I didn't read the instruction with attention, and as I was "trying" to just pay attention to the sensation in body, without labeling, and it took me sometime to be able to do it. I was very distracted and tense, exactly because I wanted to do it "right". I repeated the exercise 2 more times and that's when I could do it more easily and following the instructions well. What I mean is that the mind has been very distracted and anxious with this process, unconsciously trying to avoid it.
I know that is not important to the process, the how and why, but it was circus to notice. And this anxiety is not helping me to be relax and see things more clearly, with more easy. When I'm relax and I do these kind of exercise, sometimes I can even have some aha moments,

[graceabounds]

Very good. ❤️

Does this feeling of anxiety and wanting to do well have a location in the body? What is noticed?

Is it owned? Is a ‘you’ in any way responsible for generating or monitoring this feeling or for generating a feeling of being relaxed?

If you were to try the exercise again with a sense of playfulness and exploration (since the ‘result’ has already been achieved) what is experienced?

[danielak]

HI!

I have been trying to notice the sensations when I'm anxious , but I don't feel anything different in the body. I'm not sure if it's because I'm too distracted with my mind spinning or if really there is nothing really atypical , which doesn't seem right...

Is it owned? Is a ‘you’ in any way responsible for generating or monitoring this feeling or for generating a feeling of being relaxed?

No, the thoughts or feelings just appears

And I didn't write before because I was experiencing doing the exercise less "seriously", and it was definitely easier than the first time, just doing it instead of I have to do it right. I guess it's my mind saying "I have to get this!" or "I have to put more effort". but doing it more times, it was getting easier. I noticed clearly how the image of the body doesn't related to the sensations, I could see how the mind quickly creates associations about everything, to explain everything

[danielak]

It's me again. I just wanted to share some insights/experiences I had today. One of the things I do for a living is working as a cleaner, and I remember hearing Eckhart Tolle say that a good way to "practice" being present is while washing dishes, cleaning the house... and I could never do it. For me it meant doing everything slowly, paying attention, and I was, in general, in "rush mode." But today I was trying to observe the movements I make while cleaning, and I couldn't follow them. One thing is just raising your hand and moving it slowly, which can give the idea of having control over your movements — but while cleaning, fast, coordinated, precise... I couldn't see where that was coming from. It was clear that it was impossible for every single movement to have a controller telling it what to do next. The movement was happening by itself, and "I" was just paying attention to how it was moving.

Also, I bike to work, and this happens sometimes when I'm going downhill and I let the bike move by itself — I just feel the breeze, the speed makes me attentive, and I can notice things passing by me. I don't have to do anything, just notice and be attentive., I'm present...

Another thing is that in the past, while I was cleaning, I was always listening to an audiobook or a podcast — 95% of the time related to self-awareness, spirituality, consciousness, psychology... and since we started working together, I stopped all of that. I noticed that listening to those things helps keep my mind focused, calmer. Today, since you "authorized" me to listen to Ilona's videos ;) I was listening to her guiding someone else, and that was helpful to "practice" being present, and just observe the senses and the thoughts. Also, at night I have trouble sleeping — my mind is all over the place, agitated, anxious — and to fall asleep I need to listen to a guided meditation; then my mind can follow it and calm down. On one hand, I see this as a strategy that works, and that's good, but at the same time it feels like I have a wild mind that needs external help to calm it down.

[graceabounds]

Hello Daniela,

Thank you for all that context. I would challenge the story that you have a wild mind. Everyone has thoughts. The thoughts are not a problem. What we are working on here is to see through them. And, as you are discovering just like with the body, that begins with checking if you are in any way responsible for generating, monitoring, censoring, or believing them. :)

The movement was happening by itself, and "I" was just paying attention to how it was moving

Yes. And are there two things? The movement happening and a me paying attention? Or could it be that there is just one thing…? Movement. Take a look. Does the movement require the idea, the thought of a witness?

I have been trying to notice the sensations when I'm anxious , but I don't feel anything different in the body. I'm not sure if it's because I'm too distracted with my mind spinning or if really there is nothing really atypical , which doesn't seem right...

It doesn’t have to be ‘different’, it could be quite habitual, but there is likely something happening that is there to have the label ‘anxious’. So in the same way as being mindful when cleaning, practice slowing down when this appears and take a look.

Is the breathing different?
Heart rate?
Maybe there’s warmth.
Maybe pressure.
Maybe pulsing.
Maybe tingling.

I am also curious. What happens in the body when at night there are thoughts and no audio to listen to? Is there something besides the thoughts there?


If that is a challenge, start when biking downhill. In that beautiful flow state what is sensed? What is felt, heard, smelled, tasted in those moments?

[danielak]

Good morning Becca,

Yes. And are there two things? The movement happening and a me paying attention? Or could it be that there is just one thing…? Movement. Take a look. Does the movement require the idea, the thought of a witness?

You've pointed that out before, and I understand what you mean about not being "I" or being two. However, it does feel that if the attention is on the movement, it can be noticed more precisely, and if the attention is on the thoughts, the movements happen without being perceived — even if it's not "me" who is paying attention. Does it make sense?

When you asked about what happens when there's the label "anxious," that was a great question. I started asking myself how I know I'm anxious, and interestingly, it's still not very clear. However, yesterday I was biking to work and reflecting on these questions — I knew I was a bit anxious, but I couldn't explain how I could tell, what was different. Suddenly a guy with a kid on an electric bike made a turn and fell in front of me. I stopped to help. I was nervous — nothing happened — but once I left, I had that wave of emotion and tears I hadn't felt before. The fall triggered it, but it wasn't about that — it was about the anxiety. I could notice a very subtle pressure in my chest/heart... still something to be explored.

Also, something interesting that happened while exploring this anxiety was that I could finally observe (again, "me" observing... not sure how to put it, I guess it was noticed?) the gap between the impulse and the eating — something I'd been trying to do for a while. I noticed it happening in different moments, but generally the pattern was at a moment of transition between tasks, like taking a breath before moving to the next thing. It feels like a moment of emptiness that needs to be filled, and again, a pressure in my chest.

What happens in the body when at night there are thoughts and no audio to listen to? Is there something besides the thoughts there?

I'm gonna be paying attention to that, these days I have been sleeping well, though.

[graceabounds]

Beautiful looking here. Now, can you find the thing that moves attention?

I could notice a very subtle pressure in my chest/heart... still something to be explored.

Yes. So what is this “pressure” when you don’t call it anxiety? Take a look.

Is it pressure? Where exactly?

How large? Does it have an edge or place where it is not?

Is it steady or pulsing? Does it move?
Does it expand? Contract? Change when a thought appears? Change when attention moves elsewhere?

It feels like a moment of emptiness that needs to be filled, and again, a pressure in my chest.

What makes it “emptiness”?
Stay at the level before the label. What is actually there?

[danielak]

Gosh, strangely it's been harder than I could image. Today I wasn't that anxious, so I couldn't go deeper about it. but I had trouble sleeping yesterday. And I was trying just to notice the sensations. or better said there was an intention to observe what was happening in the body when there is difficulty to sleep. there was a knowing that the body and mind where agitated, many thoughts and a focus was happening specifically in the body. The mind was describing as if the whole body was vibrating fast, but not a sensation inn a particular part of the body.
During the day, I craved for food. Again there was observation happening about the craving, there was an interesting insight. I could see a pattern unfolding kind of automatically, and with that it was possible to predict the outcome. As if there was now an understanding of the patterns of thought and how that led to the action of eating, and this time, it was happening not "unconsciously" as before. There was an intention to focus on body sensations, This still a bit vague, it was possible to feel a tightness in the middle chest, something constant, not moving, warm, and connected to my throat, and same sensation there. But it's so vague, barely perceptive, specially when there is so many things happening at the same time, it wasn't possible to be totally focused on that.
So, I'm still exploring it. Anyway it has been very interesting, there are more opening to explore sensations and thoughts, "I'm" becoming more curious and allowing the thoughts and feeling to arise.

What makes it “emptiness”?

that is a good question too. Gonna explore that too.
P.S. I guess you notice that I have been more carful by using me/I, however, it's not necessarily that the seen that Daniela doesn't exist had happened, just exploring this too...

[graceabounds]

Wonderful. Keep exploring the sensations in direct experience, what is actually here beneath each label?

The mind was describing as if the whole body was vibrating fast, but not a sensation inn a particular part of the body.

Is this sensation of vibration pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral? Take a look.

I guess you notice that I have been more carful by using me/I, however, it's not necessarily that the seen that Daniela doesn't exist had happened, just exploring this too...

Great. Notice what is present in the body and other senses when it is used and when it isn’t used… is there a difference?

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side.

If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I
was amused), my back hurts (I am frightened), get it?

Let me know how it goes and what you notice.