River of thought

[NearClear101]

Hello again, Rowena.

This contentment, this familiar peace can be 'attuned to' energetically when the body and mind are in a peaceful and relaxed state.
It is always present.

With eyes closed, do you feel a body?

Is question about a whole body or sensations from senses?
Noticing breathing, heart beating, touching/feeling when sitting, sound here.


Do sensations tell you anything about a body?

DE : no.

Where does sound meet sensations? Can you find a border, a gap?

Sound is immediate, just here. As too the sensations. NO border no distance no gap : all here now.

Is there a border to be found between the visual field and sound?


Is there a border to be found between the visual field and sensation?

Same as above with this seen . All immediately here.

Is there a knower in any of these?

No entity of "knower".



Let go of all trying to know, to understand.

Letting go of all "trying to know and understand" is good practice. Particularly the "trying" [ given my lifetime of conditioning and wanting to understand ].
Thankyou for the apt advice.


Thoughts can arise about "wanting to know or understand", watch them arise and fall away, try not to 'bite the hook!' And, if that happens,
look at how the whole body seems to energetically contract away from the openness that is still present.

Yes. Sensations of body energetically contracting away when attention in thanking.
Openness here.

Warm regards,
Doug

[Noro]

Hi Doug,

With eyes closed, do you feel a body?

Is question about a whole body or sensations from senses?
Noticing breathing, heart beating, touching/feeling when sitting, sound here.

Your answer is great, but doesn't really address the question. From now all, please consider all questions being addressed to your direct experience.

So with eyes closed, do you feel an actual body? Yes or No?
If yes, how would you know without CE, i.e. content of thought!

The above question is actually a really helpful one for you to ask yourself periodically, especially if there is some pain or discomfort arising. There is always the possibility of shifting to the DE or energetic experience of the body, and that can be a good reset. You can do a fully body scan lying in bed, experiencing only a gentle movement or flow of sensations. No body, without the CE perspective!



DRIVING AND READING ROAD SIGNS - Noticing thoughts - Visual Field and direct cognition of words.

Next time you are out driving on a calm stretch of road, feeling relaxed, bring your attention to a road sign coming up. Repeat the words of the sign in your head and notice if there are any sensations in your head as you do this.
Is the thought/cognition happening out there by the sign, or inside your head?
Can a line of separation, or a gap between the sign and the reading the sign (thought) be found?

Now, when the next road sign comes up just notice the sign without saying the words to yourself.
Would you still know what the sign means? Yes?no?
Is an overlay of thought actually required to register the meaning of the directions? Yes/No?

When you see written words, do you need to think to register the meaning of those words?
What is it that is registering the meaning of those words?
Can a register of words / thinker /cognizer be found in DE? Yes/No?

You can watch the difference between what happens when there is efforting or trying to read and understand the words on the sign and when it seems effortless.

Let me know how you get on.

Warmly,
Rowena

[NearClear101]

Hi Rowena,

So with eyes closed, do you feel an actual body? Yes or No?

No : not an actual body as such.
Noticing breathing, heart beating, touching/feeling when sitting.
CE: concepts map these as components of a body .


If yes, how would you know without CE, i.e. content of thought!

The above question is actually a really helpful one for you to ask yourself periodically, especially if there is some pain or discomfort arising. There is always the possibility of shifting to the DE or energetic experience of the body, and that can be a good reset.
You can do a fully body scan lying in bed, experiencing only a gentle movement or flow of sensations. No body, without the CE perspective!



DRIVING AND READING ROAD SIGNS - Noticing thoughts - Visual Field and direct cognition of words.

Next time you are out driving on a calm stretch of road, feeling relaxed, bring your attention to a road sign coming up. Repeat the words of the sign in your head and notice if there are any sensations in your head as you do this.
Is the thought/cognition happening out there by the sign, or inside your head?
Inside head.

Can a line of separation, or a gap between the sign and the reading the sign (thought) be found?

Not seeing ( in DE) any "reading the sign".
Attention seems to move between visual and thinking ( comprehending shapes for words to say).

Now, when the next road sign comes up just notice the sign without saying the words to yourself.
Would you still know what the sign means? Yes?no?

No.

Is an overlay of thought actually required to register the meaning of the directions? Yes/No?

Yes.


When you see written words, do you need to think to register the meaning of those words?

Not clear on "register the meaning of words" in DE.

Comprehending/learning seem to be mind based.

DE : No. seeing shapes, colour.
CE comprehends these as symbols of meaning in a language map learned.


What is it that is registering the meaning of those words?

Thought - memory and concepts. Map of image to word to meaning.


Can a register of words / thinker /cognizer be found in DE? Yes/No?
No.


You can watch the difference between what happens when there is efforting or trying to read and understand the words on the sign and when it seems effortless.

Let me know how you get on.

Efforting when reading for a meaning ( stress in fear of getting directions wrong or doubt so rechecking meaning of sign ) does have the energetic contraction experience.

Rowena, feel struggling with this exercise today.
Warmly,
Doug.

[Noro]

Hello Doug,

Efforting when reading for a meaning ( stress in fear of getting directions wrong or doubt so rechecking meaning of sign ) does have the energetic contraction experience.

It seems that this reading road signs exercise has rather stirred up a hornet's nest of mental activity, so I will work on some clearer question and we can return to it when you have looked at the following.

First of all:

So with eyes closed, do you feel an actual body? Yes or No?

No : not an actual body as such.
Noticing breathing, heart beating, touching/feeling when sitting.
CE: concepts map these as components of a body .

The question was a direct question regarding your direct experience, and you answered it clearly with the No. But then, do you see how thought came online wanting to clarify, justify, explain. It is like there was a concession given regarding direct experience, thoughts saying No....BUT. ........... Remember the example of the colored socks at the beginning of our conversation together? Direct experience does not need to be questioned, only reported on in the most simple way, using minimal words, and often a yes or no will suffice.

With eyes closed, in your direct experience, without thoughts coming on line interpreting experience, is there a direct experience of a body?
What is actually found regarding the above in your direct experience?

With eyes closed, in your direct experience, is there even a direct experience of breathing without thoughts coming on line interpreting experience?
What is actually found regarding the above in your direct experience?

With eyes closed, in your direct experience, is there even a direct experience of heart beating without thoughts coming on line interpreting experience?
What is actually found regarding the above in your direct experience?

Warm regards,
Rowena

[NearClear101]

Hi Rowena,
Firstly, just saying well done, in last posting.
Your intuition to accurately pickup of honest nest of reactivity with me ,when dealing with "road signs" and getting directions correct.

I may have expressed this here in other ways previously.
My history and hidden fears of being blamed / shamed even humiliated around getting instructions and/or decisions incorrect. "Responsibility burden" for being careful and "cause no harm".
Consequently, "doubt" thought streams ( mental activity - as you put it) is given attention. Clarity in decision making impacted - contraction experiences.
Yes, the advice simply noticing in DE and reporting ( not justifying , thinking) is OK for these questions.
Thankyou.


With eyes closed, in your direct experience, without thoughts coming on line interpreting experience, is there a direct experience of a body?
No.

What is actually found regarding the above in your direct experience?

Blank. Nothing.


With eyes closed, in your direct experience, is there even a direct experience of breathing without thoughts coming on line interpreting experience?

No.

What is actually found regarding the above in your direct experience?

Energetic experience. (sensesory happening).



Warm regards,
Doug

[Noro]

Hello again,

Your intuition to accurately pickup of honest nest of reactivity with me ,when dealing with "road signs" and getting directions correct.

We are going to gently work with this.

I may have expressed this here in other ways previously.
My history and hidden fears of being blamed / shamed even humiliated around getting instructions and/or decisions incorrect. "Responsibility burden" for being careful and "cause no harm".
Consequently, "doubt" thought streams ( mental activity - as you put it) is given attention. Clarity in decision making impacted - contraction experiences.

I totally understand the above. From my own experience, learning to place direct inquiry before all conclusions I have had about myself, either told to me or that I have made up in order to avoid making mistakes and "causing no harm" has been the most powerful way of slowly de-conditioning those patterns and allowing new calmer and clearer way of letting in life.

Let's start looking at the Visual Field combined with visual symbols, i.e. simple written words.


LOOKING OUT AT THE WORLD

Sit quietly, take a few deep breaths, look around you and take in the visual field (the world around you).
Ask yourself: "What do I see in front of my face" and let any thoughts/labels be there..
Now, let go of all thoughts and labels and keep looking out at the visual field. Allow your mind to become still as you relax into the visual field.

IN YOUR DIRECT EXPERIENCE look at where this 'information' about a world comes from:
Is it in the seen? Are there actual objects out there? Yes/No
If yes, how is this known?
Is there actual concept known as 'distance' to be found? Yes/No
If yes, how is this known?
Watch for any reactions arising regarding the subject of distance
Is there a boundary or any distance between you (the observer) and the visual field?
If yes, how is this known?


Write down a simple sentence on two or three separate sheets of paper in bold writing.
Shuffle them to make them more of a random occurrence and place one or two of them on the table in front of you, with one or two other simple objects.

For this exercise you will bring in the innate skill of pattern recognition of symbols that you learned when you were very young.

Staying very relaxed look at the table (visual field) in front of you.
Pay close attention to what is going on internally when attention goes to one of the objects and then to the written words.
Allow for some sense of contraction to arise in the beginning.
If you are looking at an object see it simply as raw visual data i.e. color.
If you are looking at one of the sentences allow yourself to take in the words.
At first, you might repeat the words you are reading. No problem.

Keep shifting your focus of attention between the objects and the sentences, and see if you can become more relaxed in the process.

See if it is possible to 'absorb' the understanding that is coming from reading the words without consciously repeating them.
After a few times, when you feel that you can share,

In your direct experience, (No CE please) :

Can thoughts actually be found or located in a particular location? Yes/No?
If yes, where exactly?
If there is a sense that thinking is arising in the head, look closely, what do you find apart from sensations?
Can an independent 'reader' of words be found? An "I" that is reading words? Yes/No

When you say the following, what feels more calm and 'true'?
"I am reading words." or "Reading words is happening"

Let me know how you get on with this.

Warm regards,
Rowena

[NearClear101]

Good morning Rowena,


LOOKING OUT AT THE WORLD

Sit quietly, take a few deep breaths, look around you and take in the visual field (the world around you).
Ask yourself: "What do I see in front of my face" and let any thoughts/labels be there..
Now, let go of all thoughts and labels and keep looking out at the visual field. Allow your mind to become still as you relax into the visual field.

Scene of colours and shapes

IN YOUR DIRECT EXPERIENCE look at where this 'information' about a world comes from:
Is it in the seen? Are there actual objects out there? Yes/No

Yes: DE seeing this.
No objects.

If yes, how is this known?
Is there actual concept known as 'distance' to be found? Yes/No

No distance.

If yes, how is this known?
Watch for any reactions arising regarding the subject of distance
Is there a boundary or any distance between you (the observer) and the visual field?

No.

If yes, how is this known?


Write down a simple sentence on two or three separate sheets of paper in bold writing.
Shuffle them to make them more of a random occurrence and place one or two of them on the table in front of you, with one or two other simple objects.

For this exercise you will bring in the innate skill of pattern recognition of symbols that you learned when you were very young.

Staying very relaxed look at the table (visual field) in front of you.
Pay close attention to what is going on internally when attention goes to one of the objects and then to the written words.
Allow for some sense of contraction to arise in the beginning.
If you are looking at an object see it simply as raw visual data i.e. color.
If you are looking at one of the sentences allow yourself to take in the words.
At first, you might repeat the words you are reading. No problem.

Keep shifting your focus of attention between the objects and the sentences, and see if you can become more relaxed in the process.

See if it is possible to 'absorb' the understanding that is coming from reading the words without consciously repeating them.
After a few times, when you feel that you can share,

In your direct experience, (No CE please) :

Can thoughts actually be found or located in a particular location? Yes/No?

No.

If yes, where exactly?
If there is a sense that thinking is arising in the head, look closely, what do you find apart from sensations?
Can an independent 'reader' of words be found? An "I" that is reading words? Yes/No

No.


When you say the following, what feels more calm and 'true'?
"I am reading words." or "Reading words is happening"

2nd. reading words is happening.


Let me know how you get on with this.

Interesting exercise. Noticing attention shifting focus during reading/absorbing then relaxed into visual.


Warm regards,
Doug

[Noro]

Hello Doug,

I'm happy the exercise went well, lets look at the Driving Exercise again.


OUT ON THE ROAD - The Visual Field and direct re-cognition of words.

1. Sitting in a parked car: For this exercise we are going to bring in a bit more relative or conventional detail, we are going to acknowledge the presence of cars in the visual field. As you take in the visual experience, letting go of all CE thoughts:
Can a line of separation, or a gap between the cars and the seeing of the cars be found?
Can a separate 'see-er' or "I" that is seeing (in here) be found?
Can a 'car' or 'cars' out there be found to be separate or divided from the whole visual field?
Is there anything to indicate that it is not one whole appearance simply happening?

Please share how you experienced this.


2. Next time you are out driving on a calm stretch of road, feeling relaxed, bring your attention to a simple road sign coming up. Don't choose anything complex, just a simple instruction.

As you take in the sign, can a line of separation, or a gap between the sign and the reading of the sign be found?
Is there an apparent reader of the sign (in here) and a sign to be read (out there)?
If yes, in your direct experience and keeping your eyes on the road, where is the reader located?
What indicates that there is a reader other than a thought and perhaps the arising of a sensation?
Consider: Can a thought read? Can a sensation read?
If there is no reader to be found, can it simply be: reading of road-sign happening?

Efforting when reading for a meaning ( stress in fear of getting directions wrong or doubt so rechecking meaning of sign ) does have the energetic contraction experience.

Let's try and unpack efforting. Efforting implies an 'efforter'.

Now, look carefully at the whole 'set-up' in slow motion:
Looking at words on a road sign happening >>
Not able to fully comprehend the words on a road sign happening >>
Body sensations of contraction >> Thinking: I must try harder to focus > I am afraid of getting directions wrong > Maybe I made a mistake ............

Does any of this 'set-up' require a 'doer' or a separate "I" efforter?

Let me know how this lands with you, and perhaps you can come up with another example where you experience doubt, a need to try hard, a fear of making a mistake or something and we can look at it together.


No matter if there are thoughts and sensations like the ones associated with this investigation.
No matter if there are thoughts and sensations associated with everyday life situations or memories about the past, or thoughts and even fears about the future; There is no separate independent 'self' or "I" controlling or choosing whatever thoughts and sensations that are appearing.

Let me know how this lands with you.

Warm wishes,
Rowena

[NearClear101]

Hi Rowena,

Thanyou for this latest post and feedback provided. Aha happening.

1. Sitting in a parked car: For this exercise we are going to bring in a bit more relative or conventional detail, we are going to acknowledge the presence of cars in the visual field. As you take in the visual experience, letting go of all CE thoughts:
Can a line of separation, or a gap between the cars and the seeing/hearing of the cars be found?


Can a separate 'see-er' or "I" that is seeing (in here) be found?
No.

Can a 'car' or 'cars' out there be found to be separate or divided from the whole visual field?
No.

Is there anything to indicate that it is not one whole appearance simply happening?
No.


Please share how you experienced this.

Staying here in London atm : experiencing cars-everywhere!
Staying in DE - seems practice in "seeing the scene" the whole visual field with jumping in/out to CE.
The approach from sitting in car , calms the practice.
"Hearing the sound" happening is not so interrupted.



2. Next time you are out driving on a calm stretch of road, feeling relaxed, bring your attention to a simple road sign coming up. Don't choose anything complex, just a simple instruction.

Rowena, it maybe a weeks before returning to Oz and opportunity of driving ; particularly "relaxed" manner.
Perhaps in a few days time, while passenger with my son, an opportunity may present.
Can we defer this exercise?


As you take in the sign, can a line of separation, or a gap between the sign and the reading of the sign be found?
Is there an apparent reader of the sign (in here) and a sign to be read (out there)?
If yes, in your direct experience and keeping your eyes on the road, where is the reader located?
What indicates that there is a reader other than a thought and perhaps the arising of a sensation?
Consider: Can a thought read? Can a sensation read?
If there is no reader to be found, can it simply be: reading of road-sign happening?


Efforting when reading for a meaning ( stress in fear of getting directions wrong or doubt so rechecking meaning of sign ) does have the energetic contraction experience.
Let's try and unpack efforting. Efforting implies an 'efforter'.

Now, look carefully at the whole 'set-up' in slow motion:
Looking at words on a road sign happening >>
Not able to fully comprehend the words on a road sign happening >>
Body sensations of contraction >> Thinking: I must try harder to focus > I am afraid of getting directions wrong > Maybe I made a mistake ............

Does any of this 'set-up' require a 'doer' or a separate "I" efforter?

Let me know how this lands with you, and perhaps you can come up with another example where you experience doubt, a need to try hard, a fear of making a mistake or something and we can look at it together.


No matter if there are thoughts and sensations like the ones associated with this investigation.
No matter if there are thoughts and sensations associated with everyday life situations or memories about the past, or thoughts and even fears about the future; There is no separate independent 'self' or "I" controlling or choosing whatever thoughts and sensations that are appearing.

Let me know how this lands with you.

Warm wishes,
Doug

[Noro]

Hello again!

Staying here in London atm : experiencing cars-everywhere!
Staying in DE - seems practice in "seeing the scene" the whole visual field with jumping in/out to CE.
The approach from sitting in car , calms the practice.
"Hearing the sound" happening is not so interrupted.

You have a wonderful training ground! Keep going!

Rowena, it maybe a weeks before returning to Oz and opportunity of driving ; particularly "relaxed" manner.
Perhaps in a few days time, while passenger with my son, an opportunity may present.
Can we defer this exercise?

Doug, you dont need to be diving a car, that was even a presumption on my part. This investigation can be done while walking, on a bus, or in the tube, so take your pick. Come back with a few examples. And feel free to take your time, no need for you to feel you have to reply back straight away.

Have a nice afternoon and enjoy the eclipse which begins at 6:17 pm BST!

Warm regards,
Rowena

[NearClear101]

Thankyou.
Eclipse a special happening. .

[NearClear101]

Good morning Rowena,
Today feeling "at a loss" . Perhaps eclipsed may be more accurate.
See my summary at the bottom of this post.


As you take in the sign, can a line of separation, or a gap between the sign and the reading of the sign be found?
No.

Is there an apparent reader of the sign (in here) and a sign to be read (out there)?
No.

If yes, in your direct experience and keeping your eyes on the road, where is the reader located?
What indicates that there is a reader other than a thought and perhaps the arising of a sensation?
No reader.

Consider: Can a thought read? Can a sensation read?
No.

If there is no reader to be found, can it simply be: reading of road-sign happening?
Yes.


Now, look carefully at the whole 'set-up' in slow motion:
Looking at words on a road sign happening >>
Not able to fully comprehend the words on a road sign happening >>
Body sensations of contraction >> Thinking: I must try harder to focus > I am afraid of getting directions wrong > Maybe I made a mistake ............

Does any of this 'set-up' require a 'doer' or a separate "I" efforter?
No.


No matter if there are thoughts and sensations like the ones associated with this investigation.
No matter if there are thoughts and sensations associated with everyday life situations or memories about the past, or thoughts and even fears about the future; There is no separate independent 'self' or "I" controlling or choosing whatever thoughts and sensations that are appearing.

Rowena,
To answer your Q : how all this is sitting with me?

So what is here?
DE : All THIS ,
Just happening?
An awareness of living/existing. An awareness of sensations and thinking.
No thinker, no reader, no separate I. No controller.
What is living here?
What is this essence of being/ living?
Why do I seek "thinking to find answers" after all this unravelling of thinking ( last month).

Warm regards
Doug

[Noro]

Hello Doug,

Today feeling "at a loss" . Perhaps eclipsed may be more accurate.

OK, perfect to investigate:
Thought = Feeling at a loss. The word 'feeling' indicates body sensation (feelings), so now go to the feeling itself, go to the body, what sensations are appearing that seem to go with the thought "feeling at a loss"? What are other words that come up?
Despondency perhaps? Tiredness? allow the thoughts to bring you deeper into the body experiencing.

To answer your Q : how all this is sitting with me?

So what is here?
DE : All THIS ,
Just happening?
An awareness of living/existing. An awareness of sensations and thinking.
No thinker, no reader, no separate I. No controller.
What is living here?
What is this essence of being/ living?
Why do I seek "thinking to find answers" after all this unravelling of thinking ( last month).

Aha, you have fallen back into the trance of thinking! Seeing clearly in DE does not immediately over-ride long-term conditioning. These thoughts will continue to arise, seeking will likely continue in one way or another, a natural diversion away from an innate restlessness in our being.

BUT DOES ANY OF THAT REQUIRE OR BELONG TO AN "I" THAT IS SEPARATE AND DIVIDED FROM THE WHOLE OF EXPERIENCE?

Perhaps this video will help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDzrCLlrj4
"Sometimes waking up goes back and forth a bit"

Keep up the direct inquiry Doug, and give me an update.

Warm regards,
Rowena

[NearClear101]

Hi Rowena,

Why do I seek "thinking to find answers" after all this unravelling of thinking ( path over the last month)?

Is your response below an answer to my question above?
These thoughts will continue to arise, seeking will likely continue in one way or another, a natural diversion away from an innate restlessness in our being.

BUT DOES ANY OF THAT REQUIRE OR BELONG TO AN "I" THAT IS SEPARATE AND DIVIDED FROM THE WHOLE OF EXPERIENCE?

I cannot find a separate I.
The question of "does that require a separate I" is a believing that lingers. A belief of creation exists in CE
DE: no boundaries to separate field of vision, no distance to here, nor there.
DE: aware of being/ existence here.
CE asks what is that? That that is aware?

Yes, the video helped with the conceptual seeking something dilemma (long time wanting for me).
But not Q/ inquiry : what is this awareness?.

Thankyou.
Doug

[Noro]

Hello Doug,

Why do I seek "thinking to find answers" after all this unravelling of thinking ( path over the last month)?

Is your response below an answer to my question above?

These thoughts will continue to arise, seeking will likely continue in one way or another, a natural diversion away from an innate restlessness in our being.

Doug, this is the only response that I can give, there is no answer! Is there a who or what or an "I" that can require an answer? Thoughts arise, conditioned by conditioning over and over, expectations, assumptions, what we have been told...... just think how it goes, and deep within the psychosoma, there is the continued refrain that goes on and on "there must be something more than this" or similar. Does this resonate?
Will you agree that in our youth we try everything to move past this, to set ourselves targets, goals, achievements, aspirations..... and little by little it begins to dawn on us that perhaps nothing we can do or get or achieve will satisfy this subtle internal 'malaise'. It is in-built into the system and belongs to no 'one', first we seek outwards and then we seek inwards, but there is no "we" just a movement called "seeking". It is a natural state affairs! Perhaps that is what got us to the Moon, although from the perspective of DE, no separate "one" ever got to the moon, its just a story!! Isn't that crazy!!

The question of "does that require a separate I" is a believing that lingers. A belief of creation exists in CE

Yes, and this 'pattern' will continue to run until it doesn't, direct inquiry, and seeing the thought for what it is, simply thinking happening without a thinker.

But not Q/ inquiry : what is this awareness?.

Some teachers will say that what we are as our true self is awareness, others say it is consciousness..... others say it is God. There are many ways to give a name to what is unknowable, and unfindable. For what ever is found, or known as an object arises in awareness. Awareness cannot be grasped. It cannot be found, because it is that in which everything appears, and yet, it can not be separated out from what is appearing.

Return again and again to your direct experience, the Visual Field especially, dropping all labels. Ask yourself with wonder and curiosity, "What is this?" , and don't expect a reply that will satisfy the conventional mind. Is there any separation or any division at all?

That's it for tonight,

Let me know your thoughts.

Warm regards,
Rowena