LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
After years of searching I have admitted that the self has never been experienced. Time has never been experienced. Space cannot be experienced. There are no problems. This moment is perfect as it is.
What are you looking for at LU?
I'm curious to see what happens. There is some propensity for sharing this with others. Maybe with the idea that it could be helpful. But also just because it is fun. However, I am reticent to share this with people in my life, as I do not get great responses. So I'm not sure what the direction is for me. This site was recommended to me, so I'm giving it a try.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't really know what to expect, but my hope is that there is real openness. I do not subscribe to any religion, philosophy, or spiritual practice. I'm prone to rejecting anything that feels rigid or dogmatic.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I did Vipassana for several years. In the past few years I began doing philosophical inquiry. I've been influenced by neo-advaita speakers like Jim Newman and Rupert Spira as well as idealist philosophers.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11
Exploration and Integration
Re: Exploration and Integration
Welcome to Liberation Unleashed.
My name is Rowena and I am happy to be your guide. Please let me know what I should call you.
Below are some details for you to look at:
2. Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.
3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
and "Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041
4. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)
6. Please answer all questions individually, not in a bundle, as this will assist us both in having a clear dialogue. Also it is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.
7. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the enquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers. Here's a video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ
Throughout this exploration the questions that I would like you to answer are written in blue text. But please check and answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text!!
For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. And I will do so as well.
What time zone are in? I am in Belgium which is CET
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start. The exercises might be rather basic, but we can move through quickly.
COLORED SOCKS - HOW TO LOOK FOR THE NO SELF IN THE EXERCISES .
There is a BIG difference between knowing/believing that there is no self, and seeing that there is no self.
If you can’t see for yourself directly, you cannot describe what you see in your own words.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:
If I ask you what colour socks (or underwear) you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are. Or,
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?
For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the actual experience that is right here and right now.
DIRECT OR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE IS
Seeing (colors, shapes)
Hearing (sounds)
Feeling or Sensing (sensations)
Tasting
Smelling
and
Thinking (but not the content of thought)
Hopefully you are clear about this; if not, please let me know if you would like any further clarification.
DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF DAILY ACTIVITIES
Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities as simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of the experiencing of a cup of coffee
Seeing a cup; simply= color
Smelling coffee; simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup; simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee; simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee; simply = sound
Thinking about drinking the coffee; simply = thought
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.
The point is to understand the difference between what is actually being experienced (Direct Experience) and not what is interpretation (Conventional experience).
Please post several of your own observations in lists exactly like the one above.
Warm regards,
Rowena
My name is Rowena and I am happy to be your guide. Please let me know what I should call you.
Lovely!After years of searching I have admitted that the self has never been experienced. Time has never been experienced. Space cannot be experienced. There are no problems. This moment is perfect as it is.LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That is great to hear. And I can resonate with you about not getting great responses.... this is not for everyone.I'm curious to see what happens. There is some propensity for sharing this with others. Maybe with the idea that it could be helpful. But also just because it is fun. However, I am reticent to share this with people in my life, as I do not get great responses. So I'm not sure what the direction is for me. This site was recommended to me, so I'm giving it a try.What are you looking for at LU?
Here we will only be looking at what is actually appearing in direct experience (DE) and making the distinction between that and the relative, everyday, conventional experience (CE)I don't really know what to expect, but my hope is that there is real openness. I do not subscribe to any religion, philosophy, or spiritual practice. I'm prone to rejecting anything that feels rigid or dogmatic.What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Ok, feel free to use the language that you feel familiar with regarding the above perspectives. All language, labels, etc. is conceptual overlay and we will be looking at that.I did Vipassana for several years. In the past few years I began doing philosophical inquiry. I've been influenced by neo-advaita speakers like Jim Newman and Rupert Spira as well as idealist philosophers.What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Below are some details for you to look at:
2. Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.
3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
and "Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041
4. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)
6. Please answer all questions individually, not in a bundle, as this will assist us both in having a clear dialogue. Also it is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.
7. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the enquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers. Here's a video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ
Throughout this exploration the questions that I would like you to answer are written in blue text. But please check and answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text!!
For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. And I will do so as well.
What time zone are in? I am in Belgium which is CET
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start. The exercises might be rather basic, but we can move through quickly.
COLORED SOCKS - HOW TO LOOK FOR THE NO SELF IN THE EXERCISES .
There is a BIG difference between knowing/believing that there is no self, and seeing that there is no self.
If you can’t see for yourself directly, you cannot describe what you see in your own words.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:
If I ask you what colour socks (or underwear) you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are. Or,
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?
For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the actual experience that is right here and right now.
DIRECT OR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE IS
Seeing (colors, shapes)
Hearing (sounds)
Feeling or Sensing (sensations)
Tasting
Smelling
and
Thinking (but not the content of thought)
Hopefully you are clear about this; if not, please let me know if you would like any further clarification.
DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF DAILY ACTIVITIES
Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities as simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of the experiencing of a cup of coffee
Seeing a cup; simply= color
Smelling coffee; simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup; simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee; simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee; simply = sound
Thinking about drinking the coffee; simply = thought
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.
The point is to understand the difference between what is actually being experienced (Direct Experience) and not what is interpretation (Conventional experience).
Please post several of your own observations in lists exactly like the one above.
Warm regards,
Rowena
"Awakening is seeing that all the old patterns run by themselves, and healing is releasing the old patterns so that the system can come back to its natural state, which is health." Ilona Ciunaite
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