Nezinau

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas
Wonderful looking!
Please answer ALL questions before we proceed. These questions are not random - they point to something not yet seen, so please if you see "?" or "?" answer it - it's there for a reason :)

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hi Rali ,

Was that extra meaning contained in the words themselves? Or did it appear as an interpretation?

Interpretation

Is there a location behind the eyes?
Yes if you men some pushing sensation at the back of the eyes

When the “pushing” sensation is present, is “behind” contained in the sensation itself?

no , its a thought / mental image

Does the sensation say that it is behind anything? Are “eyes” directly present in the sensation?

no - the sensation is the senstaion , no (eyes is mental image mapping the sensation + thought )

Or is there: a sensation, a mental map of the head, and a thought placing the sensation “behind the eyes”?

Yes the correct order.

With eyes closed, can an exact location actually be found?

no

Does the sensation have measurable distance from the eyes, face, or head?

The sensation is the sensation , the the distance is maped by the thought and mental image to place the sensation.

Without referring to a mental image of the head, what makes it “behind”?

Nothing , only mental image and thought makes it behind

Are the eyes themselves experienced as a location, or are there sensations and a thought-label “eyes”?

sensations and a thought-label “eyes”

So is “behind the eyes” directly found, or is it a useful description created by thought?

Created by thought + mental image

Now stay with the raw sensation before location is added.

Does that sensation see anything?

No , Seeing happens

Does it occupy the position of a see-er?

No

Or does thought use the familiar body map to place an imagined observer there?

yes


Now return gently to the pressure behind the eyes.
There is a sensation. Then perhaps the label “behind the eyes.” Then perhaps the suggestion that this is where the see-er is.

Does the sensation itself say any of that?

No

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas,
Good!
Now notice... Thought says a lot - most of the time wrong stuff - but we are looking ONLY at DE (not thought content), so LOOK only there.

Thought may say things like: “I am seeing”, “There must be someone seeing”, “The see-er is behind the eyes.” But we are not asking what thought says. Look at seeing itself.
Is a see-er needed for seeing to happen?
Can you find any moment when seeing waits for a see-er to appear?
When the thought “I am seeing” is absent, does seeing stop?
Can a see-er be found in colour?
Can a see-er be found in sensation?
Can a see-er be found within a mental image itself—inside what is appearing as the image?
Can a see-er be found anywhere outside thought?
Please do not answer from logic. LOOK! Look several times. Report only what is directly found.

Let’s check this further with a simple exercise.
Take a few relaxed breaths. Then… Look to your right. Look to your left. Bring your head back to the centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Now open your eyes and look to the right. When you look to the right, the view on the right is seen.
Can you stop seeing that view while your eyes remain open?
Can you look at the view and choose not to see it?
I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like the view on the left or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is - can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Now look to the left.
Can you choose not to see what is there?

Now close your eyes. There may be dark colour, light, shapes, or small moving colours.
Can you choose not to see what appears?
Can seeing be turned off?

Now look only at direct experience.
Is a see-er needed before seeing can happen?
Does seeing wait for someone to do it?
Can a see-er be found in the colour?
Can a see-er be found in sensation?
Can a see-er be found anywhere other than in thought?
Thought may say: “I am seeing,” “There must be someone seeing”, but do not answer from what thought says. Report only what is directly found while doing the exercises.
Please use simple words and describe one actual example.

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hi Vytas,
Good!
Now notice... Thought says a lot - most of the time wrong stuff - but we are looking ONLY at DE (not thought content), so LOOK only there.

Thought may say things like: “I am seeing”, “There must be someone seeing”, “The see-er is behind the eyes.” But we are not asking what thought says. Look at seeing itself.

Is a see-er needed for seeing to happen?

No

Can you find any moment when seeing waits for a see-er to appear?

Seeing is just happens , the thought comes on top so the seeing cant wait for a seer to appear .

When the thought “I am seeing” is absent, does seeing stop?

No

Can a see-er be found in colour?

No

Can a see-er be found in sensation?

No

Can a see-er be found within a mental image itself—inside what is appearing as the image?

The seerer cant be found , but mental image plus thought i am the see-er can be seen.

Can a see-er be found anywhere outside thought?

No

Please do not answer from logic. LOOK! Look several times. Report only what is directly found.

Let’s check this further with a simple exercise.
Take a few relaxed breaths. Then… Look to your right. Look to your left. Bring your head back to the centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Now open your eyes and look to the right. When you look to the right, the view on the right is seen.

Can you stop seeing that view while your eyes remain open?

No

Can you look at the view and choose not to see it?

No
I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like the view on the left or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes.

The question is - can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

No

Now look to the left.

Can you choose not to see what is there?

No

Now close your eyes. There may be dark colour, light, shapes, or small moving colours.
Can you choose not to see what appears?

No

Can seeing be turned off?

No

Now look only at direct experience.

Is a see-er needed before seeing can happen?

No

Does seeing wait for someone to do it?

No

Can a see-er be found in the colour?

No

Can a see-er be found in sensation?

No

Can a see-er be found anywhere other than in thought?

No

Thought may say: “I am seeing,” “There must be someone seeing”, but do not answer from what thought says. Report only what is directly found while doing the exercises.
Please use simple words and describe one actual example.

Seeing happens , opened eyes and closed. The see-er is attached to sensation as the thought , when you look for the seerer it cant be found as it is a thought.

[poppyseed]

Hey Vytas,
Wonderful!! You can check hearing (and the other senses) in the same way. Sit quietly and listen to one sound. It may be traffic, a voice, a bird, music, or any other sound.
Is the sound heard automatically? Can hearing be stopped while the sound is present?
Is an hearer needed for hearing to happen?
Can an hearer be found inside the sound? In a sensation? Anywhere outside thought?

At the beginning, you said that no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision-maker, or witness could be found. But you looked only inside the body. We have now looked more carefully at the see-er. Let’s check the thinker separately.
Sit quietly and wait for the next thought. A thought appears.
In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?
Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead? Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?
Where do thoughts appear from? Where are they coming from and going to? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Watch like a hawk.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:
Could you predict the order of their appearance?
Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

Are thoughts 100% true?
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?
Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Vytas,
Wonderful!! You can check hearing (and the other senses) in the same way. Sit quietly and listen to one sound. It may be traffic, a voice, a bird, music, or any other sound.

Is the sound heard automatically? Can hearing be stopped while the sound is present?

Yes the sound is heard automatically. Hearing can't be stopped.

Is an hearer needed for hearing to happen?

No , the hearing jus happen

Can an hearer be found inside the sound? In a sensation? Anywhere outside thought?

No , the hearer is the thought.

At the beginning, you said that no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision-maker, or witness could be found. But you looked only inside the body. We have now looked more carefully at the see-er. Let’s check the thinker separately.

Sit quietly and wait for the next thought. A thought appears.

In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?

No except another thought

Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?

No , another thought.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

no

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

no

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

no

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

no

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

no

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?

no

Where do thoughts appear from? Where are they coming from and going to? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Watch like a hawk.

They appear from now where and they go to nowhere.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:

I am looking at the monitor , coworker is writing in the document, I it will be hard day have to finish the report , have to make tea , listen to the music..

Could you predict the order of their appearance?

no

Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?

no

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

no

Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.

no I can't stop it. Its just vanishes ...

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence.

Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

I dont know what order or no order they have or they take content form other thought , it is also a thought ... Its just the thought on the thoughts....

Are thoughts 100% true?

no

What are you, when you don't think about what you are?

Just being ... just happening

Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas

It looked like I answered mu own questions – I even signed it with love :))

...Good. You found that thoughts appear without being chosen, and no thinker can be found making them. Now let’s look more carefully at two answers.

Thoughts appear from nowhere and go nowhere.

Can “nowhere” actually be found?
Or is it more accurate to say: A thought is not present. Then it is present. Then it is no longer present.
Can anything more than this be directly known?

When I do not think about what I am, there is just being, just happening.

Are “being” and “happening” directly found?
Or are these also words added by thought?
Do not replace “I” with another word. Right now, before thought describes anything, what is actually present? Colour? Sound? Sensation? Thought? Is there anything else? Is there being as well?
Please use one real example.

Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali ,

Copy paste still works ;)


...Good. You found that thoughts appear without being chosen, and no thinker can be found making them. Now let’s look more carefully at two answers.

Thoughts appear from nowhere and go nowhere.

Can “nowhere” actually be found?

No.

Or is it more accurate to say: A thought is not present. Then it is present. Then it is no longer presen

t.
Yes, its better approach its difficult to tell in words.

Can anything more than this be directly known?

No
When I do not think about what I am, there is just being, just happening.

Are “being” and “happening” directly found?

No its just thought to express

Or are these also words added by thought?

No

Do not replace “I” with another word. Right now, before thought describes anything, what is actually present? Colour? Sound? Sensation? Thought? Is there anything else? Is there being as well?

No

Please use one real example.
When asked to wait for another thought , only after some time the thought appears that no thoughts appears the thought about the thought.

When you asked to think about the thoughts that are not associated with I or about you - any thought becomes present as they all involve I , then only sensations left and the thoughts become present …

Its difficult to describe in words as every word involves thought… what was interesting form me what was seen that after yesterday questions seen that every thought comes woth the weight i like i is added as owner of the thoughts but is seen or in the present moment… during today your describtion thought cant be present thats the wxact experience i have seen but couldnt describe earlier what is it …

Vytas ;)

[poppyseed]

Hi Vytas
Yes, copy and paste still works. :)
I understand that it is difficult to describe this in words. That is okay. The report does not need to be perfect — I’m just checking for hidden beliefs.
You noticed something important… A thought appears. Then there is a sense that “I” own the thought. Let’s look only at this. Here is an exercise to look at how thought labels experience. You will need a pen and paper. It takes about 20 minutes. During the whole exercise, also notice the body:
Is there tightening?
Is there relaxing?
Is there any change in sensation?

First 10 minutes
Write what is happening now using the word “I.”
For example:
I am sitting on a chair.
I am hearing a sound.
I am looking at the screen.
I am feeling tired.
Write only about what is happening now. Do not write about the past or future.

Next 10 minutes
Write what is happening now without using the word “I.” Do not just repeat the previous examples – write what is happening right NOW. For example:
Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

Again, notice any sensations in the body. After the exercise, compare both parts. Please answer:
Is one description truer than the other? Which one?
What is present before any label is added?
Do the words change the actual experience, or do they only describe it?
Was there any difference in bodily sensation when using “I” and when not using “I”?
Is the word “I” part of the original experience?

what was interesting form me what was seen that after yesterday questions seen that every thought comes woth the weight i like i is added as owner of the thoughts but is seen or in the present moment…

What is this weight in direct experience?
Is it a sensation? Where is it felt?
Does the sensation itself say “I” or “mine”?
Or is there a sensation, and then thought calls it “me”?
Does the thought itself belong to anyone?
Can ownership be found inside the thought?

There is no correct answer. Report what you actually notice, even if the answer is unclear or changes.
Love
Rali

[Vytas2222]

Hey Rali ,

Is there tightening?

I can't say when telling in the neck , but it could be just sitting and writiing...

Is there relaxing?

Yes , relaxing after not used I even more .

Is there any change in sensation?

1. with using I there are more things to write what is happening but still not much as I would pretend , without I there are not much to write as the attention moves form one sensation to other in slow motion.

The sensations and attention becomes more clear I would say very clear with the moment of just now happening.

Is one description truer than the other? Which one?

Without I its just whats going on at the moment.

What is present before any label is added?

Sensation , happening

Do the words change the actual experience, or do they only describe it?

They dont change the experience , they just describe it.

Was there any difference in bodily sensation when using “I” and when not using “I”?
Is the word “I” part of the original experience?

As mentioned with I there where more what " I was doing ", wtihout I just sensations , attention mobing from one senstation to other just direct sensations, very clear breathing. Like attention is zooming in sesnsation..


what was interesting form me what was seen that after yesterday questions seen that every thought comes woth the weight i like i is added as owner of the thoughts but is seen or in the present moment…

What is this weight in direct experience?

The sensation without I or thought without I - ITs just another thought about the thought

Is it a sensation? Where is it felt?

its not a senstaion its just thought

Does the sensation itself say “I” or “mine”?

No the thought comes say I or mine , and then folows other thought about the previous thought

Or is there a sensation, and then thought calls it “me”?

So theri is a senstaion - then the thought caliming its me . mine

Does the thought itself belong to anyone?

no

Can ownership be found inside the thought?

No its just another thought

Vytas :) I will be out in camping for couple of days with low or no internet connection ... I still dont know regarding it , so the answers could delay ....

Have a great day :)