Wanting to wakeup feels like its what's stopping awakening

[mayafreedom]

Cool! I definitely felt the lack of a boundary when trying this before. I'll play with it for the rest of the day. Clearly just feeling it once isn't enough, you're saying you kept feeling it but then the breakthrough came just one of those times you felt it?

[Anastacia42]

you're saying you kept feeling it but then the breakthrough came just one of those times you felt it?

No. While I was sitting at a stoplight, not thinking about it at all.

Loving

[mayafreedom]

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

I can't find a place where my butt ends and chair begins. No dividing line.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

This is a meditation that opens you to seeing the there is no self. As I mentioned I did it 43 months off and on.

You will be doing this for a while Please do post any observations even if they're identical.

Loving

[mayafreedom]

Ok. I'll write a bit more observation right now. Apologies that this is a bit long, it's helping me process experience

When feeling where I end and it starts, I tried the other way around. Where do I start? Noticed that with eyes open this feels more concrete, the felt sense of the start of "me" is the body itself. But with eyes closed that boundary is very fuzzy.

Taking it into the body flexing the muscles the sense of hardness or solidity in the muscle seems distinct. But then there's still the vague softness below it. It just feels like "pressure." Pressure seems to have an area in that other parts of the body do not feel it. So it's not infinite in one direction, but in terms of depth, like how far "down" does pressure go?... That's where it almost feels infinite. Infinite is not quite the right word ... Boundaryless for sure but that lack of boundary feels like everything if attention is fully there, I do not know how far down this goes. It's only with moving attention elsewhere that it's clear that it's not everything, but I see that's only from thought.

Also noticed that once moving off the seat then there is perceiving a boundary, but even the exact moment of when butt-seat are separate entities is a bit fuzzy.

Imagined being innocent and knowing nothing about movement how would I know the pressure has an ending? It felt like forever too, in time.

It's very clear that thought is what makes the boundary. I can 'know’ in thought, "my body is this size and shape, this is what a mattress is, I've only been here X amount of time, when I get it up it won't be like this" but then take thought away, focus only on sensation... Then with more and more of that knowing gone there's just..pressure, fuzziness, heaviness, softness...

Conceptually I can also ask who is holding who, body vs mattress. Cannot tell. Almost feels like both/merging.

When closing eyes and feeling where does "me" end, for a long while it has felt like I'm quite a bit bigger than the body, that the mind-space can become more spacious and feel bigger. Not bigger than the perception of the room, even if the perception in the mind changes to outer space there's still a me and an it.

Now, feeling into multiple sense at the same time, not just feeling the mattress, letting go of the idea of a boundary, sounds also feel like part of this sense-experience.

[Anastacia42]

That's mosty a lot of thinking. You describe DE & that's good, but then you think about it.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu

When you LOOK, there's nothing to process. It just IS.

Loving,

[mayafreedom]

That's true, I do that a lot. See, but then go into thinking/talking/grasping.

That's a helpful video.

So I just stay in DE as much as possible? Think as little as possible?

Now what?

[Anastacia42]

This is all you need. Repeat until you have a shift in perception. If you've already had that shift, and it sounds like you have, you may just be stuck in doubt.

It took me 3 months. It can take much longer.

TNH was discussing "inter-being." Suddenly, out of nowhere, my heart burst open with joy and tears streamed down my face, and the feeling was "I'm not alone." This joy and love was everything I had ever wanted, and here it just was.

having some fleeting trippy perceptions

This is the kind of shift in perception we look for.

What.more do you want?


I can give you dozens of pointers, but at some point, that's just distraction.

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Loving,


This is just a beginning.

[mayafreedom]

This is the kind of shift in perception we look for.

What.more do you want?


I can give you dozens of pointers, but at some point, that's just distraction.

Everything I start to write is more thoughts. Yes, lots of doubt. Don't know where I am on the path. Sense of "this is too simple to be it." But keep hearing this same thing, some variant of "you already know...just keep going."

What more do I want? Confirmation. Relief from the ongoing selfing thoughts about: how I look or financial security, the desire for confirmation and the desire for awakening.

[Anastacia42]

It IS simple

There are 3 videos on doubt. Please watch them.

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp

What more do I want? Confirmation. Relief from the ongoing selfing thoughts about: how I look or financial security, the desire for confirmation and the desire for awakening.

You can use the Work of iByron Katie to question your thoughts about those things. They are not actually part of awakening at this stage.

www.thework.com


When you are ready there is a set of 6 checkpoint questions we give that might give you some of the confirmation you're after.

Loving

[mayafreedom]

There are 3 videos on doubt. Please watch them.

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp

(I only see 1 video, would love the other 2, thank you!)

I watched this one (2nd fetter, first lesson):
- I absolutely know the joy of experiencing and return to it many times throughout my days
- I absolutely know the overwhelmingly powerful self-compassion and have had maybe...2 dozen? More? experiences of parts being released and healed into it (through deep meditation and/or Internal Family Systems work)
- I frequently experience thought / doubts emerging and see them just as thoughts. My motto this year has been "maybe I don't have to believe my thoughts" and I've found it completely true even at surprising times like when self-doubting major decisions/options all of that can just dissolve
- I feel very clear about body yes and body nos. I call this intuition. I rely on it heavily in my [helping profession] work and it's extremely relaxing and flows and feels wonderful to be in that
- An underlying belief I have become aware of is "there is a problem." I've noticed that this year, too, that thoughts emerge saying there must be something wrong and must be fixed or optimized. I've done this with appearances, job, finances relationships, food, etc, etc. eventually I come to a point where I just can't find what is actually wrong and realize there isn't anything, it was the thinking itself that was so painful, and it goes away temporarily and I just feel relaxed and present

So maybe right now the underlying belief is, "I must not be awakened because..." And then I find things like "my morality isn't perfect" "even though I've had out of body experiences I don't know if I depend on the body" "even though I have met enlightened beings, maybe i can't get there" "if I did awaken at some point, which experience was it? That initial one 7 years ago or.. .(And then thoughts about various similar experiences about letting go, the body, greed, etc)

Last week I made a list of beliefs that feel sticky still it seems boil down to some form of "I'm not good enough," like even a thought of I am good enough at xyz would be followed by "oh I'm conceited and not humble enough about that."

[Anastacia42]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vTyUspd7c3c ... _Bh5KmiM7H


That's the second one. I'm on my phone and searching for these on YouTube is driving me crazy. Do a search on her name and second Fetter third lesson.

So what you're doing is great, but that's the kind of thing we do after awakening and almost proves my point. Awakening does not cause us to heal all that stuff. It only brings it to our awareness.

Have you seen these?

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

This is just a beginning.

Loving,

[mayafreedom]

Thank you I will watch all 3 of her doubt videos.

Yes I've watched both of those...very good.

After I sent my message I meditated on the body and then fell into hypnogogic hallucinations/lucid dreaming (I was very present in the beginning and then it seemed to devolve more into just dreams) for the last 3 hours. In the dream I was going around asking all my teachers and the people in the dream if I was awakened, or what awakening was, or how to awaken.

Naturally, it was frustrating, because it's all mental constructs asking mental constructs. The irony is not lost at all. It's almost hilarious.

This winter, I had a very extremely vivid set of visions (totally present for) and in the middle of what felt like the most realistic street corner I had ever seen, I asked "who is the director here!?"

I know the answer is there is no effing director hahaha, but why am I still looking for them?

I have many similarly powerful dreams and yes have done much of that healing.

[mayafreedom]

Do you see people coming from Theravada being confused about awakening like this? Maybe the bar for stream entry is higher or different criteria than Zen kensho/non-duality awakening? But even kensho I don't know if I've had that super direct seeing perception shift, that's still where the doubt is.

[Anastacia42]

Dreams are just more thinking. See my sig line below.

I don't pay much attention to where people came from. It never matters.


From an email from Ilona

Nothing dramatic happened.

There were no fireworks.
No permanent bliss states.
No sudden personality changes.

And yet, something shifted.


Here are a few things people said afterwards:

“I’m not fighting my experience anymore. There’s more space around everything.”

“I expected something big to happen. Instead, life feels simpler and I trust myself more.”

“There’s less urgency. The seeking has softened.”


This is the kind of shift this work supports.

Ilona Cuinate

Loving,