It's not too late

[Kassis]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I think it means that everything about me is dependent on other things. My memories of my own life change over time, everything about me changes too, my likes and dislikes, my opinions, my body, my understanding, the way I relate to others, it all changes depending on what's happening around me.

What are you looking for at LU?
A community of people who , like me, question the separate self, and, hopefully some pointers to untangle this gordian knot of thoughts that I have been artfully tying together all of my life. And, since the intro says: "no enlightenment" OK, no big bang, but maybe a little candlelight?

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Hoping to get some good advice and the company of other humans who want to know what this whole joyful and/or miserable mess all around us is really all about. Some digital handholding, and the opportunity to be honest, human, and alive with no agenda.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Starting as a Lutheran in a catholic country and finding all answers I was soliciting unsatisfactory I moved on to years of Zen - with the same result, and now I'm a student of Hareesh Wallis, the first tradition I encountered that states clearly that awakening is an actual possibility. I'm old, I dont's have much time to waste . Happy to have found you.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Well, the good news is that you'll see when you die. I have a meditation for that. I may skip some steps & send that right away. How old are you? I'm 66.

Here's my usual introduction:

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

We know there's no separate self.

Skipping *many* steps, try this. Listen to the Introduction first.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksba3zhi9uuz ... sk1a?dl=0
Loving

[Kassis]

Hi Stacy! Nice to meet you! I'd be very happy to have you as my guide. My name is Ingrid, and I'm 75. And while it's comforting to know that I will see clearly when I die, which, at my age is not so abstract any more, I don't want to wait. And I say "know" and not "think" because I was with my mother when she died after a long and miserable illness. She had no spiritual practice or interest in her lifetime, but in the moments right after her death her face radiated a peace and beauty that I had never seen on her before and this blessing is still with me after many years.
Unlike her I had an interest in what people called religion as far back as I can remember. Growing up Lutheran in a Catholic country I learned that there is more than one way to skin a spiritual cat. I also learned that the available teachers usually had no satisfying answers to my questions. So, I am still looking for god.I understand the "no separate self" from a logical point of view. It makes sense! But while I had all kids of experiences that proved that there are more things between heaven and earth... I never had that experience that is a game changer, or a shift of consciousness, or... really I'm not hung up on definitions.
Listened to the introduction. I'll get the hang of this process. Eventually!

[Anastacia42]

Great. Listen to those when you can. They're extra. & We'll move on here.

Please answer these.quoting individually per the instructions & video above.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Loving

[Kassis]

Great. Listen to those when you can. They're extra. & We'll move on here.

Please answer these.quoting individually per the instructions & video above.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Great. Listen to those when you can. They're extra. & We'll move on here.

Please answer these.quoting individually per the instructions & video above.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Loving

Forgot before: I live in New York City, so: EST
How will my life change? I honestly don't know
What will be different? Well, here is what I hope for: no more gut reactions to other people or problems, I do notice that those usually protect some kind of narrative
What is missing? freedom from memories and regrets

I listened to the intro mp3, and then the "zooming in on death" because that camu up next. I stopprd a few times to think about the answers to some of his questions and scribbled them down:
How I imagine my death: I had an out of body experience when I was 18 , looking at my body down below with interest and a total lack of fear. I imagine my death like that, a slow moving away from the body, leaving it behind.
The series of zooming in parts were a little irritating, it took me back to my algebra classes, the intellect took over: yeah yeah, asymptotes , aeternity, cant get there from here...
Whats the last bit of letting go? Surrender I guess, but its just that : a guess
I drifted off to other images: Schubert's Death and the maiden, a gentle touch, like putting a child to sleep, and a play I saw many years ago with the young lovers on a park bench at night and a man in a dark suit standing still in the shadows. The death that is to come soon, just as their love is blooming. Again, gentle , slow.
At some point it will let go of us. I think this is where it's at, the agency is not with me.

[Anastacia42]

Please fix the formatting. I read these on my phone. Later, other guides will be asked to read them.

From my first post:

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the (ONE) question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Thank you

[Kassis]

How will life change?

I honestly don't know

[Kassis]

How will you change?

also: I don't know , it seems impossible to predict

[Kassis]

What will be different?

Well, here is what I hope for: no more gut reactions to other people or problems, I do notice that those usually protect some kind of narrative

[Kassis]

what is missing?

freedom from memories and regrets

Hope I got the formatting right this time!

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

Hope I got the formatting right this time!

Much closer & a lot easier to read. All of those can go into one post, please.

Here is an example from one of my other clients.

https://liberationunleashed.com/nation/ ... 27#p423027

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Kassis]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

HI Stacy, Sorry I made 4 posts instead of one, I thought that's what you meant by "individually" I'll get this right eventually!
Well, the separate self is certainly a long practiced story, and much of my experience confirms it. But other things don't fit: When I see someone else hurt, even in a movie, I cringe, when I was pregnant with my 3 children I could not tell where one body ends and the other begins, and everybody somehow seems to search for those experiences, eg during sex or maybe at a rave or some other charged event, maybe even political, where the self gives way to something larger.
So I definitely see truth in the "no separate self" thing, but the default, when I'm not really thinking about it,is that I am here and everyone else is out there.
Also , not sure if you saw this, but I live in New York CIty, so it's Eastern standard time

[Anastacia42]

Okay, this will help you start to clear up the confusion.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Kassis]

Colored Socks

yes, I agree, my sense experiences are more reliable than my memories or theories. But even the senses are not always delivering "the truth" If I wear blue glasses my socks look different from what you would see. I got mugged on the street once and a guy ran away with my necklace. Another woman called the police and reported that he had stolen my pocketbook. She was sure she had seen that, but it was not what actually happened.