Looking Within

[hmb62]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? My understanding is that separation and individual existence is an illusion. There is only one consciousness of which we are all a part.

What are you looking for at LU? I am sincerely seeking to become fully awake and truly aware in the deepest sense possible—not just intellectually, but in direct lived experience. I want to see clearly, without distortion, what is real beneath the surface of thought, emotion, identity, and conditioning.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I’m hoping for an open, accepting dialogue with clear, easy communication—one where we can speak freely, ask questions, and address confusion as it arises. My aim is to create space for honest exchange that helps clarify any uncertainty I bring into the process and supports mutual understanding as we move forward.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have read many books over the years. I have dabbled in meditation and mindfulness practices. I have never really become well-versed or proficient, however, in my spiritual seeking.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?

10

[Daniel777]

Hello and a warm welcome to Liberation Unleashed. I would like to guide you, if you are still interested. To start off, please answer the following questions so we can get to know each other better.

How will Life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
_______________________________________________

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards
Daniel

[hmb62]

Hi,

Thanks for writing back to me. It has been awhile but I am still interested in engaging in the process. Regarding your questions:

How will Life change?

How will you change?

What will be different?

In short, I do not know. I do not know how or if life or I will change or if anything will be different. I am going into this process completely absent of any assumptions or expectations. I am open to wherever this takes me.

What is missing?

I get the feeling that there is something greater of which we are all a part and to which we are all connected. That sense of connection, or knowing, or awareness of the whole is missing for me.

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

I would like to become free of the sense of being a separate self. I would like to experience the oneness about which others have written.

[Daniel777]

Hey,

It's great that you're still here. Let's take a look together, then.
To keep the momentum going, it helps if you reply to me by the second day at the latest. Agreed?

In short, I do not know. I do not know how or if life or I will change or if anything will be different. I am going into this process completely absent of any assumptions or expectations. I am open to wherever this takes me.

Saying "I don't know" and going in without fixed expectations is the best possible starting point.

I get the feeling that there is something greater of which we are all a part and to which we are all connected. That sense of connection, or knowing, or awareness of the whole is missing for me.

That is a very understandable wish. But here, we must draw a very sharp distinction right away. Experiences and feelings come and go. Even the deepest connection, the most beautiful sense of oneness, is a state. And states change.

I would like to become free of the sense of being a separate self. I would like to experience the oneness about which others have written.

It is entirely understandable that you long for this freedom and unity. But the reality is: it will be completely different from what your imagination currently envisions.

When you hear that all your ideas about it are a dead end—what arises directly within you right now?

[hmb62]

...It helps if you reply to me by the second day at the latest. Agreed?

For now I can confirm replies by the second day at the latest. Although I do not see that changing for the duration, if it does, I'll let you know right away.

When you hear that all your ideas about it are a dead end—what arises directly within you right now?

To what does "it" refer? I am not certain that all my ideas are a dead end. What arises is disagreement with the terminology and the generalization.

[Daniel777]

Hi,

Please bear with me if some of my terminology seems a bit unclear at times, as I have to translate my thoughts into English. If anything sounds confusing or off, just let me know and ask for clarification again.

At the moment, I can confirm a response to you by the second day at the latest. While I do not expect this to change in the foreseeable future, I will let you know immediately if it does.

That's fine.

To what does "it" refer? I am not certain that all my ideas are a dead end. What arises is disagreement with the terminology and the generalization.

By "it," I was referring to the expectation regarding the state of liberation.

Your skepticism regarding such generalizations is absolutely justified. To say "all ideas are a dead end" is an oversimplification. Your openness and your approach of engaging with the process with a completely open mind are not a dead end—they are the best foundation you could possibly have.

The point was simply this: The mind tends to conjure up a concrete, spectacular feeling or scenario when it hears terms like "oneness" or "liberation." Yet, once the illusion is seen through, these specific images almost always diverge radically from the actual—and often very sober—reality.

When you look at your wish and simultaneously hear that the final outcome might be far less spectacular, simpler, or simply different from what a thought can plan right now:

What immediate reaction or movement arises within you at this very moment?

And please read the following statements and tell me what feelings arise for you. What comes up when I make this radical assertion:

"You" do not exist, and the helm is completely empty. Not a single thought, feeling, or even this body belongs to you—there is no owner and no steersman here. Everything you call "my life" unfolds entirely without you, because there is no one there to whom anything could possibly belong."

I look forward to hearing from you again.

Daniel

[hmb62]

Hi Daniel,

I neglected to mention that my name is Harry. Sorry for the oversight.

...I have to translate my thoughts into English

No problem, things can very easily be clarified with a message or two. You did clarify your last message very well, by the way. Thank you. :)

When you look at your wish and simultaneously hear that the final outcome might be far less spectacular, simpler, or simply different from what a thought can plan right now:

What immediate reaction or movement arises within you at this very moment?

Actually, a sense of neutrality and curiosity comes over me. Also, a bit of a sense of adventure and anticipation in regard to experiencing the truth of the matter, regardless of what it entails.

And please read the following statements and tell me what feelings arise for you. What comes up when I make this radical assertion:

"You" do not exist, and the helm is completely empty. Not a single thought, feeling, or even this body belongs to you—there is no owner and no steersman here. Everything you call "my life" unfolds entirely without you, because there is no one there to whom anything could possibly belong."

Quite an interesting reaction occurs. I have read the statement a number of times over the past hour or so and each time I feel a sense of relief, or release; maybe a sense of looseness or freedom. It's difficult to put into words. A vague familiarity arises on some intuitive level. Again, it's hard to explain.

[Daniel777]

Hey,

nice to meet you, Harry!
It’s great to read your reactions. Yes, I see what you mean. It's truly difficult to put into words what actually exists before or beneath all language.

So, I don’t see anything standing in the way of taking a look.

Before we dive deeper into this lightness and take the next step, I want to make sure we are pointing in the same direction.
In this process, we talk a lot about looking at things through "direct experience."
To make sure we are on the exact same page:

What does the term "direct experience" mean to you? How would you describe it in your own words?

Best,
Daniel

[hmb62]

Hello Again Daniel,

What does the term "direct experience" mean to you? How would you describe it in your own words?

Based on my limited reading on the topic, my understanding of direct experience is awareness of what is perceived without applying any meaning, interpretation, evaluation, etc. Rather than the mental process of "that flower smells nice," for example, directly experiencing would be simply noticing the sensation without adding any labels,internal explanations, definitions, and so on. It would be the same for what is seen, heard, tasted, and felt through the body.

[Daniel777]

Hi Harry,

Nach meiner begrenzten Lektüre zu diesem Thema verstehe ich unter direkter Erfahrung das Wahrnehmen von etwas, ohne es zu deuten, zu interpretieren, zu bewerten usw. Anstatt beispielsweise gedanklich zu erfassen („Diese Blume riecht gut“), bedeutet direkte Erfahrung einfach, die Empfindung wahrzunehmen, ohne sie zu benennen, innerlich zu erklären, zu definieren usw. Dasselbe gilt für das, was wir sehen, hören, schmecken und körperlich fühlen.

Fine. There is one very important additional point to make here, as this is where the biggest misunderstanding often arises: How do we deal with thoughts?

We do not try to stop, control, or push away thoughts. Thoughts are a completely natural part of reality—just like hearing or seeing. However, in direct experience, we distinguish between two levels:

The direct experience of the thought (its arising):
The fact that a thought is present right now (as an image before the mind's eye or as a word "heard" in the head) is a real, bare fact. The process of thinking simply happens—just like breathing.

The content of the thought (the story):
What the thought is about is not a direct experience. If you think of a lemon right now, the arising of the thought is real. But the lemon itself is not there. It is merely a concept.

Now, I would like you to pay attention throughout the day to how this labeling from thoughts takes place. See if you can catch yourself using terms like "I," "I am," "me/to me," "my," "mine," "I have," etc., and notice how often it happens.

Observe what you are applying these labels to. Is it applied to actions, thoughts, and so on? Does it happen all the time or most of the time? Is it like a commentary or a claim of ownership? Can you see where and when the labeling occurs—before, during, or after the event?

Kind Regards
Daniel

[hmb62]

Hello Again Daniel,

See if you can catch yourself using terms like "I," "I am," "me/to me," "my," "mine," "I have," etc., and notice how often it happens.

I am getting better at being mindful of my thought processes in the moment. It usually takes some self-reflection after the fact, however, to realize I had been entertaining such thoughts as "I am so tired,"I am sore,"I am hungry," "My stomach is killing me," "I have to get my bookwork done," and so on.

Observe what you are applying these labels to. Is it applied to actions, thoughts, and so on? Does it happen all the time or most of the time? Is it like a commentary or a claim of ownership? Can you see where and when the labeling occurs—before, during, or after the event?

I apply the labels to actions such as "I really did a good job on...," or "Not my best work," for example. The labels are regularly applied to the thoughts I have after noticing things in my body or out in the world around me. Such labeling is a regular occurrence unless it is during a rare time of present moment mindfulness. Sometimes it is a commentary, a running internal dialogue until I catch myself in the act. The labeling is occurring during the event and noticed afterward.

[Daniel777]

Hi Harry,

good eye. Thanks for the detailed report on your findings.

...as a relaxing supplement. Thoughts like "I am so tired" or "I am hungry" are completely natural and healthy, and they will continue to arise automatically. That is simply our language. You do not need to change or control anything here. That is impossible anyway, so stay relaxed and just let things be.

The labeling is occurring during the event and noticed afterward.

Take a look again: Is the label actually present during the pure, sensory experience itself?

When a sound is heard or an object is seen—is an "I-label" already present in the very first moment of pure hearing, identifying itself as the one hearing that sound? Or is there initially simply the bare hearing of the sound, and only a tiny fraction of a second later does your inner commentator chime in, claiming like: "I am hearing a sound. that´s a...."?

To illustrate this, imagine a football commentator:
First, the ball flies into the net (the goal is scored—the raw, physical event).
Only then does the commentator passionately shout, "Goal!" (the linguistic labeling).
It is impossible for the commentator to announce the goal at the exact moment it happens—he always lags a fraction of a moment behind the action in order to describe it.

How does it play out? Make use of the quiet time of the day.

Kind Regards
Daniel

[hmb62]

Good Morning,

Take a look again: Is the label actually present during the pure, sensory experience itself?

When a sound is heard or an object is seen—is an "I-label" already present in the very first moment of pure hearing, identifying itself as the one hearing that sound? Or is there initially simply the bare hearing of the sound, and only a tiny fraction of a second later does your inner commentator chime in, claiming like: "I am hearing a sound. that´s a...."?

I do recognize that to be the case. There is a gap between the direct experiencing of the sensation and the label or identification assigned to the experience. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Daniel777]

You hit the nail on the head there, Harry. There is a clear discrepancy. But...

There is a gap between the direct experiencing of the sensation and the label or identification assigned to the experience.

Are there really two separate things—the sensation and an experiencer who has that sensation? Can an experiencer be found anywhere alongside the sensation itself?

Or is there simply the experiencing itself, with the "experiencer" emerging only subsequently as a conceptual label?

[hmb62]

Are there really two separate things—the sensation and an experiencer who has that sensation? Can an experiencer be found anywhere alongside the sensation itself?

Or is there simply the experiencing itself, with the "experiencer" emerging only subsequently as a conceptual label?

This line of exploration is a bit too deep for me too quickly. My mind is just not able to wrap around these questions at this time for some reason. :(