Running Home

[graceabounds]

Nothing changes, but everything is different.

What are your expectations for a shift?

Look at that thought (that there should be one) with the same scrutiny you’ve applied to every other “I” thought.
What is it comparing this moment to?

For some it is a big bang, for others seeing feels rather obvious on the other side.
And life goes on…

As you say

Just the:
Seeing
Hearing
Feeling
Without the “I”

If an illusion falls in the forest does it make a sound? :D

Let me also ask: Is seeking present?

[Emac1122]

Nothing changes, but everything is different.

That’s the thing, while I have moments of insight- I don’t think everything is different. Small steps? I feel less clinging to that I and more aware of just experiencing, but not completely not always.

What are your expectations for a shift?

I don’t know, more consistent feelings of whatever experience? I can’t say I’m constantly labeling now. I guess I’m still thinking there should be some kind of ahh moment…
That things should seem/feel different? I’ve heard it described as losing your equilibrium, having the rug puout, no center, etc. I don’t have any thing like that…

Look at that thought (that there should be one) with the same scrutiny you’ve applied to every other “I” thought.
What is it comparing this moment to?

Does the I completely drop away? Isn’t that moment different than the one after? Wouldn’t it appear different than the moment before, no I ? It seems like it would. Is it so subtle or slow it is unnoticeable until one day you wake up and the I is just gone? How is that seen? I feel like it should be very obvious and not confusing or questionable. Am I wrong?

For some it is a big bang, for others seeing feels rather obvious on the other side.

But there should be at least a shift in perspective? I guess I still feel like I’m missing something.

[graceabounds]

I thoughts will continue to arise, but they are seen through and have no center of gravity. Santa Claus is not believed in any more.

That is the shift in perspective.

You’ve already reported many times that when you investigate, the thought “I” does not point to anything you can actually find.

What happens when you look right now?

I feel like it should be very obvious and not confusing or questionable

What tells you that?
Is that coming from direct experience?
Or is it another thought about what awakening is supposed to look like?

What exactly is it that still says, “I’m missing something”?

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

[Emac1122]

What happens when you look right now?

There are thoughts, sensations and feelings, but I don't find a separate entity.

What tells you that?
Is that coming from direct experience?
Or is it another thought about what awakening is supposed to look like?

t is just anecdotes and books that I've read that indicated to me that it would be more obvious to me. It is not direct experience. As direct experience, I don't find an I, nor do I even feel the same type of attachment to this idea of an I that I had when we started this process.
Yes, it is just another thought about how awakening should look. That question made me laugh.

What exactly is it that still says, “I’m missing something”?

It is just thoughts that arise telling me that there is something missing that there must be something more.

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

It started out with number of tic marks on the self side, but by the end kind of evened out. When I thought about it, I still refer to "I" for example "I'm tired, or I want to go to bed, etc." But when I look for that I, I don't find it. I'm guessing this is habit?

Take care,
Erin

[graceabounds]

There are thoughts, sensations and feelings, but I don't find a separate entity.

Notice that this isn’t something you arrived at once. It has been your answer over and over, from many different directions.

When I thought about it, I still refer to "I" for example "I'm tired, or I want to go to bed, etc." But when I look for that I, I don't find it. I'm guessing this is habit?

Let’s not guess. Let’s look!

A thought appears: “I’m tired.”

Without changing the sentence, where is the “I” it refers to?

Is there anything besides:
* tiredness,
* perhaps heaviness in the body,
* the thought itself?

Can you find the owner of the tiredness? Or is there simply tiredness?

The language still works perfectly well. We all say “I’m hungry” or “I’m going to bed.” The question has never been whether the language disappears. The question is whether the word “I” ever points to a separate entity.

Does this word ‘I’ or its relation ‘me’ point to an actual separate entity right now, or is it simply a convenient label?

Is there a sense of self that still lingers? If so where is it located or how is it known?

[Emac1122]

Hi Becca,

Without changing the sentence, where is the “I” it refers to?

I feel like I'm back at the start trying to find the "I." I feel even more lost now. I'm not my body. I'm not a separate entity within my body or my mind. I feels like a substantial thing, but I cannot find it when I look for it. It is an illusion composed of memories and thoughts and feelings.

Can you find the owner of the tiredness? Or is there simply tiredness?

When I say "I" am tired the "I" seems like the owner, but when I look deeper, it is just the tiredness then the label "I'm" tired, but the I comes with some kind of feelings of ownership not just tiredness. Funny really, I hadn't noticed that before.

Does this word ‘I’ or its relation ‘me’ point to an actual separate entity right now, or is it simply a convenient label?

It doesn't point to a separate entity. I feel like I'm still trying to drop the "I".

Is there a sense of self that still lingers? If so where is it located or how is it known?

Yes, there is a sense of self that still lingers. I does feel substantial. I'm starting to think that's what you meant by a separate entity? Now I'm wondering if I never really understood that question. Maybe I've misunderstood it all along. I feel like I'm going backwards. I can't figure out what the I is. It's crazy making.

Confused again...
Erin

[graceabounds]

When I say "I" am tired the "I" seems like the owner, but when I look deeper, it is just the tiredness then the label "I'm" tired, but the I comes with some kind of feelings of ownership not just tiredness. Funny really, I hadn't noticed that before.

Very good, Erin. This is looking.

Now, what specifically are these ‘feelings of ownership’? Look one lager deeper.

I feel like I'm going backwards.

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets… ——> the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there.

At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This
is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self, just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different.

This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:
Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

[graceabounds]

* one layer deeper (not lager haha)

[Emac1122]

Hi Becca,
I understood you meant layer. LOL, no worries.

Now, what specifically are these ‘feelings of ownership’? Look one lager deeper.

When I actually look I realized that the feelings seem to be a heaviness in the body that I then label “ownership.” I don’t think I would if it it wasn’t in conjunction with the “MY” thought.

But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different.

I agree. I still feel that there is this “I”, but I can’t find it, only in relation to other things like my thoughts, feelings, body, etc.

This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations.

I think that I am starting to see that my mind can label a certain feeling as “i” or my and that feeling can seem substantial and like a “real” thing, but at it’s basic level it still just a feeling that I’m then labeling as “i”. So even though it seems like there is a separate a substantial self, it isn’t really there and that it might take time for this recognition to occur and rather than focusing on the presence of the I maybe I should look at the experience or feelings being expressed that I then label “I”.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:
Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

The sense of self does seem to have a location in my body, although it is not my body, since it often feels like it “owns” the body, which is a really funny realization. This goes back to that feeling of ownership. If I just look at the self without thinking about ownership, I just feel sensations - warm heavy - right this moment, but I recognize that even this changes. It is not thought, but is labelled by my thoughts. It is not emotion as those are always changing and the self feels separate from my emotions - which again is a funny observation. It seems obvious that this self is nothing but a swirl of sensations, ,often a heaviness that all come together to feel like a substantial thing. But this sensation seems to be good at “holding” me - wrapping around my consciousness and filtering my experiences.

I feel like this is a layer deeper, but that there is more. I think it has finally sunk in that being curious (as you’ve suggested in previous messages) about what is there rather than what is not will help.

Once again your questions have really helped me to put things in perspective and I’m thankful for this opportunity to work with you.

Sincerely yours,
Erin

[graceabounds]

Hi Erin,

the feelings seem to be a heaviness in the body that I then label “ownership.” I don’t think I would if it it wasn’t in conjunction with the “MY” thought.

Aha. So what is happening at the raw sensation level? This heaviness… is there an I inside of it? Is there an I inside of any sensation?

Here is a formula:
Sensation + thought = emotion (also called feeling, as I think you are referring to when you say “feelings being expressed”)

If the sensation and the thought are wholly separate the emotion collapses.

So here:

rather than focusing on the presence of the I maybe I should look at the experience or feelings being expressed that I then label “I”.

Continue to LOOK at the raw sensation and the thought AND THE LACK OF CONNECTION BETWEEN THEM. Is any I necessary for this sensation? Is any I necessary for this thought arising?

At what point does an owner actually appear?

It seems obvious that this self is nothing but a swirl of sensations, ,often a heaviness that all come together to feel like a substantial thing. But this sensation seems to be good at “holding” me - wrapping around my consciousness and filtering my experiences.

Does “feels substantial” equal “is a separate entity”?

Who is the “me” being held?
Can it be found except in a thought or mental image?


And here’s an exercise to support with the ownership of the body. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.
Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colors and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (perhaps legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

-Becca

[Emac1122]

Hi Becca,
Our friend has died. We’re currently in his hometown for the funeral and to visit with the family then will be heading home tomorrow. I won’t be able to respond until I’m back home, but will as soon as I can.
Thanks,
Erin

[graceabounds]

I am sorry for your loss Erin. Take whatever time you need of course.

With love,
Becca