Is it possible?

[Anastacia42]

That works.

Look closely.

Loving,

[Maryann]

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Just sensations and thoughts about walking. Sensations labelled as walking.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Just thoughts about a body. A body can't be found.

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No. There are just sensations and the thought/mental image of a body walking.

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

There is an image that is labelled as room and there are sensations that don't have a definite location.
Going back to question 4.

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

I think that I am trying too hard to answer this question. I'm still seeing a connection and then trying to unsee it which complicates things further.

[Anastacia42]

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
I think that I am trying too hard to answer this question. I'm still seeing a connection and then trying to unsee it which complicates things further.

Probably. So relax. Breathe.

Are you SEEING a connection? Or thinking it?

Loving,

[Maryann]

Are you SEEING a connection? Or thinking it?

I can see the waving hand and feel the waving hand. Two different sensations. No connection between them. But somehow it seems as if they are just one thing. Like butt/chair. I understand that they aren't.

[Maryann]

If my hand is touching something I can tell that there is no communication between the sense of hand/touch and the seeing of the hand touching. I don't know why I'm having a problem with the waving hand.

[Anastacia42]

Well, relax your gaze & look gently.

Loving,

[Maryann]

Seeing the hand moving and the sensation of hand moving still seem connected so I will keep looking.

[Anastacia42]

Relax your gaze. No straining or effort.

Loving,

[Maryann]

Seeing the hand moving has no influence on the sensation of the hand. But this is not 100% clear so I'll keep looking.

[Anastacia42]

Try this pointer:

Seeing Exercise - Part I

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc

We will begin with 'seeing' -

Just that one sense on its own.

Close your eyes.

With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.

Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found? What do you find?

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Loving,

[Maryann]

Thanks Stacy. I haven't done the latest pointer yet but I just wanted to say thank you for it.

[Anastacia42]

Ok. You're welcome.

Loving

[Maryann]

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

No

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

No

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found? What do you find?

Just blackness can be found.

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

There is a belief/idea that there is an I seeing the blackness.This can't be undone it seems.
What I am doing is when I think that I am seeing/moving etc I check to see if it's already being done and then the claim that i am doing it.
The problem with this though is that the witnessing of what's happening, the awareness of what's happening, can start to become the new self identity.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

There is a belief/idea that there is an I seeing the blackness.This can't be undone it seems

Yes, it can.
That's a thought. Check your gut for tension. Is it true or a lie?

The problem with this though is that the witnessing of what's happening, the awareness of what's happening, can start to become the new self identity.

Right. There is awareness, but it is not a "self."

Here is something Vince wrote that might be helpful.

The main impediment, as it shows up here, is the felt need to make something happen.

More specifically:
the seeker-pattern that keeps trying to reproduce, control, or get back to peace.

It shows up as:
wanting to know how the quiet happened
wanting to be able to do it again at will
turning calm into a result to be achieved
turning “letting go,” “surrender,” and “do nothing” into things a someone must do
looking for the right method, video, understanding, or inner move that will finally make awakening land

So if I isolate it as cleanly as possible:

Main impediment is the belief that awakening is something a “me” can produce, control, or attain in the future.

Underneath that, there’s a second layer feeding it:

The emotional flavour is the habitual orientation toward fixing discomfort and improving experience — the half-glass-empty reflex that interprets life as something that should be made different.

That is why even good pointers get turned into suffering:

“do nothing” becomes “how do I do do-nothing?”
“let go” becomes “I need to let go better”
“surrender” becomes “I must perform surrender”
a glimpse of peace becomes “how do I make that happen again?”

So the core obstacle is not lack of insight. It is not lack of practice. It is not lack of sincerity.

It is the selfing movement that immediately claims experience and tries to use it to get somewhere else.

Wanting peace is disturbing peace.
Wanting awakening is reinforcing the seeker.

The main impediment to “waking up” is the attempt to wake up.

What seems to most obstruct waking up is the deeply conditioned assumption that “I” can make it happen. You keep trying to reproduce peace, control insight, or perform surrender, and in doing so quietly reinforces the very self it longs to be free of. So the impediment is not lack of understanding, but the reflex to use every glimpse, practice, or pointer as a way to get somewhere else. In that sense, the obstacle is the effort itself — the movement of becoming, fixing, and attaining.

What if the one trying to wake up is the one being seen through?
What if the effort to arrive is what creates the sense of distance?
What if nothing is missing except the idea that something is missing?

much love

vince

Above all, don't think about looking. Just look!

Loving,

[Maryann]

Here is something Vince wrote that might be helpful

Yes I can see that writing very much is what's happening.