Seeking to see the no-self

[Anastacia42]

Good.

Language/thought is a filter which distorts actual experience of reality.

And this is what happens with labels.

"Self" is a label and the lie feeling of tightness or contraction.

Can you see this?

Loving,

[Humblesight7]

Can you see this?

I think so...the realization sort of fades in and out, going between normal "I" consciousness and seeing that.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, lather, rinse. repeat. It does that.

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Loving,

[Humblesight7]

Thank you for sharing those, that makes so much more sense now. There was a silly expectation that it would
be like a lightbulb moment that was permanent, but it needs time.

[Anastacia42]

Okay. now try this.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[Humblesight7]

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

They describe previous experiences, overlapping direct present experience.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

The content of thoughts about an 'apple' are not here, just the color/object and thought itself.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No.

However, is an apple actually known?

I guess it isn't, the thing itself can be experienced through sensory data, which is real, but the idea and preconceived notions can't actually be known in direct experience.

[Anastacia42]

Exactly. Except we don't have to guess. We LOOK.

And what else might be constructed the same way?


https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu



Loving,

[Humblesight7]

And what else might be constructed the same way?

Heh, the 'self' of course.....

[Anastacia42]

Yes.

Let's try this one:


Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[Humblesight7]

How is the movement controlled?

I don't know, it's the brain and the body doing the moving.

Does a thought control it?

No, there is an intention to do it, and a thought about that intention, but the body moves on it's own.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Outside of consciousness and intention, no.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

The intention was set, then a thought about it, but the thinking didn't decide.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Best I can figure is the brain automatically chose the right because it is the favorable, dominant hand. It happened outside normal mode of thought and consciousness.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

The only thing I can 'point' at is the body, brain and nervous system doing it's thing, there's no separate individual doing it.

[Anastacia42]

Did it ever move without "intention? "

Intention is just a thought. How could a thought cause movement? Please explain in detail.

Loving,

[Humblesight7]

Did it ever move without "intention? " How could a thought cause movement? Please explain in detail.

I'm sandwiching these questions together as one answer flows into the next.

Yes, it moved quite a bit without intention, but initially intention/thought to do the exercise started the process of moving it.

I'm having difficulty understanding how thought could not have played a part in setting it in motion, as without the intention to move I would not have started the movement.

[Anastacia42]

I'm having difficulty understanding how thought could not have played a part in setting it in motion,

"try to understand. " You won't get it by thinking. I'm asking how *could* it play a part? Magic?

Once again, how could a thought cause movement? Please explain in detail.


Loving,

[Humblesight7]

Once again, how could a thought cause movement? Please explain in detail.

I had to think about this one a little while longer, it made more sense to think of other movements aside from the
exercise. For example, breathing and walking.

Thought can influence movement by giving a direction and destination, but does not actually cause the movement is the best I can come up with. Pertaining to the exercise, there is the thought before the movement of turning the palm, then the body moves itself, without the thought prior to the movement the idea to move the palm would not be there, and no reason to move the palm.

[Anastacia42]

If you look more closely you will find that the movement happens first and then the thought.

There are scientific experiments where people were hooked up to measuring devices and they discovered that this was always true. Movement first.

Look up Libet free will experiment 1983 or read Free Will by Sam Harris.

Please keep looking.

Loving,