Guidance greatly appreciated

[GoldenBoy]

Is there actually "a me" that is constructed from thought? Or can there only be thoughts found - including the thought that a me is constructed from thought?

There is no me constructed from thought - just habitual points of reference that give the thoughts a feeling of believability.

So keep looking at this until you feel absolutely clear. Is this "column of awareness" a me that controls and does thing or not, yes or no?

No. The column of awareness is not controlling things as nothing is controlling things - just conditions coming together to produce results.

Right. How does it feel that no one can be enlightened or wake up and that awakening/clarity is not a thing?

Annoying because I still have thoughts about wanting to achieve that. There’s a mental habit to have those kinds of thoughts.

[Elad]

Annoying because I still have thoughts about wanting to achieve that. There’s a mental habit to have those kinds of thoughts.

[/quote]


Good to notice. There is of course also a paradox here, because no one can wake up, and yet life can change a lot for the apparent someone...

Continue not taking any belief for the final thing. Keep looking: Is it really true there is no separate self? What is actually here beyond thoughts and words and images and beliefs?


Here is another exercise:



“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and
the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a
thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to
feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go
on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I
was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

[Elad]

And do the listening and just noticing/feeling reactions exercise again with the the next youtube of "enligthening quotes" (number 2).

[GoldenBoy]

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and
the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a
thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to
feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go
on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I
was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

I want to have another go at this tomorrow, but on the first go - many more thoughts were self-related than not. And of those that were not, many of them might have actually been stealthily self-referential - e.g [I wonder if…] or [I think that…]

[GoldenBoy]

Hi Elad,

Just to say I am at a big choral festival this week. I plan to stay at it, but I won’t have as much time for meditation and reflection as usual.

[Elad]

Hi Elad,

Just to say I am at a big choral festival this week. I plan to stay at it, but I won’t have as much time for meditation and reflection as usual.

Thanks for the heads-up, enjoy.

[GoldenBoy]

And do the listening and just noticing/feeling reactions exercise again with the the next youtube of "enligthening quotes" (number 2).

I listened to number 2 today. My main reaction was to feel a bit sheepish because my approach has been partly to collect separate bits of insight as if gathering evidence. Or to almost wait for a compelling enough experience to feel justified in saying “I have seen no self”.

In terms of feelings, I would say there was some excited openness in the body.

[Elad]

And do the listening and just noticing/feeling reactions exercise again with the the next youtube of "enligthening quotes" (number 2).

I listened to number 2 today. My main reaction was to feel a bit sheepish because my approach has been partly to collect separate bits of insight as if gathering evidence. Or to almost wait for a compelling enough experience to feel justified in saying “I have seen no self”.

In terms of feelings, I would say there was some excited openness in the body.

Great things to see :)

Continue to do the same with number 3 and report back.

Also do this exercise:

Mind labelling experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes
about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any
bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a
computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just
a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this
time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using
verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again,
watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was
labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

[Elad]

Oh and...

I listened to number 2 today. My main reaction was to feel a bit sheepish because my approach has been partly to collect separate bits of insight as if gathering evidence. Or to almost wait for a compelling enough experience to feel justified in saying “I have seen no self”.

Where are you with this now?

[GoldenBoy]

Hi Elad,

Just a quick one to say I am still at my choir festival and haven’t been able to attend to this today. However I should have some time in the morning to sit and engage with your questions.

[Elad]

🙌

[GoldenBoy]

I will go back through in a more systematic way and make sure I have addressed all of your prompts when I can.

But today I listened to the enlightening quotes 3. I recognised the fear of making wrong decisions part and then the mind wandered off a bit to think about other potential objects of fear. But while I was listening I did get a sense of bodily spaciousness and a kind of sensation of being see through.

[Elad]

I will go back through in a more systematic way and make sure I have addressed all of your prompts when I can.

But today I listened to the enlightening quotes 3. I recognised the fear of making wrong decisions part and then the mind wandered off a bit to think about other potential objects of fear. But while I was listening I did get a sense of bodily spaciousness and a kind of sensation of being see through.

That's great! Fear and anxiety are often great markers for where hidden (self-)belief lifes.

[GoldenBoy]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I have had a crack at this exercise.

1.
I found that in both cases what was described was more or less sensory experience and where the attention landed. It felt like both followed the flow of attention, but that adding the “I” was somewhat artificial. Even when the experience was moving the body, I didn’t have any sense of initiating it and it had almost completely happened before I could make a note of it.

2. Without labels is a flow of either attention or more accurately processes unfolding and becoming more or less prominent.

3. Labels affect what is in focus because there is a need to pin down the experience to record it, which pushes the focus onto one particular interpretation of what is happening.

4. I didn’t really notice any differences in the body.

[Elad]

.

1.
I found that in both cases what was described was more or less sensory experience and where the attention landed. It felt like both followed the flow of attention, but that adding the “I” was somewhat artificial. Even when the experience was moving the body, I didn’t have any sense of initiating it and it had almost completely happened before I could make a note of it.

2. Without labels is a flow of either attention or more accurately processes unfolding and becoming more or less prominent.

Crystal clear

4. I didn’t really notice any differences in the body.

Interesting. Next time something triggers "you" in life, try describing it with and without "I language" and see what happens.


And try this exercise:


Nature Exercise

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how
clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the
time.
Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts
come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.
Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you
and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.