Step 5, doubt, and wanting to be done with this

[bluzulu]

yes, feeling like you're not good enuf unless you're the best is quite a curse.

what do you think of maybe another Zoom this coming Sunday morning?
if that sounds good, what time is best. probably about 10:5 best for me.

[avare]

I would love to have a zoom. sunday is the one day that I spend most of my time dedicated with my parents so another day would be best (at which point anytime works), but I can do sunday morning anytime before noon!

[bluzulu]

cool they get to see you like that!!

how about saturday morning? maybe 9am? please reply to my email

[avare]

saturday 9am works perfect. I dont see any email you sent but if you mean to send it as an email I'll do that too :)

[bluzulu]

plz send to bluzulu@gmail.com

[bluzulu]

Lucas, it's 9:15, i better get started on some other stuff.
let me know when you want to try again.

[avare]

hey paz!

there's been more of your practice happening now. still feels like there is trying to make it happen, but it is happening more often now and while no 'results' or shifts have happened, the practice itself is relaxing and helpful.

not much struggling here (apart from the usual, which you've helped a ton with) but still wanted to post a reply. any words, perhaps more from a brain-related side of things on focusing more on practicing? distraction here still seems incredibly prevalent!

[bluzulu]

Thanks Lucas, glad to hear less struggling.

Can you observe 'trying'? Is there any resistance to 'trying'? Does trying seem like something to be avoided?
what happens when trying is noticed?

can you notice when the first urge to distract appears?
can you observe the feeling/mindstate called urge to distract? notice the feeling of it without labels?
what is being avoided by distraction?

/p

[avare]

Can you observe 'trying'? Is there any resistance to 'trying'? Does trying seem like something to be avoided?
what happens when trying is noticed?

as for now, looking back trying does not seem to be something to be avoided but this next day I'll observe it more.

can you notice when the first urge to distract appears?

last night I decided to do more of the open practice, and just journal about experience. I noticed that this morning, in the bathroom the urge to distract came up. a lot of thoughts about not wanting to do it, feeling pressure, a strong narrative that it will suck but I have to push through, which then led me to not do it.

can you observe the feeling/mindstate called urge to distract? notice the feeling of it without labels?

will really check this out tomorrow morning. this question brought attention to the fact that I don't know what the feeling is when taking out the words that come up during it.

what is being avoided by distraction?

gosh, what a good question. yet again, you managed to cut through and hit me like *bam*! I think it is boredom. or the expectation of boredom.

[avare]

Can you observe 'trying'? Is there any resistance to 'trying'? Does trying seem like something to be avoided?
what happens when trying is noticed?

to follow up after a bit more looking, a couple times while I was reading (what I would classify as distraction) the thought 'I should practice', or 'I should do sit', etc came up. Then while more thoughts came debating about why it'll suck or why not to do it were happening, I noticed that the actual feeling was just some heat and prickliness on my face, not to say that it was shame or embarrassment but the sensation felt similar to blushing when shy, as well as some more blood/sensations on top of my head. After feeling that there was some aversion to that actual feeling as if it was wrong to feel it, at which point I went back to reading. Happened a couple times.

can you observe the feeling/mindstate called urge to distract? notice the feeling of it without labels?

there does not seem to be any actual sensation or feeling, if there is it is very subtle or minor. it seems to just be thoughts judging and resisting 'doing nothing' or being bored, at which point attention lapses/focuses on one and then the body stops and goes to do something else or focus on some other more stimulating activity.

what is being avoided by distraction?

like my previous reply, boredom definitely. but also thoughts. there is some aversion to just sitting with them, as if they will make my mood worse or make me face uncomfortable truths about my behavior, such as a disconnect between who I believe myself to be and what actually looking at how I am acting implies.

[bluzulu]

Beautiful noticing!

Yep, blame and shame are terribly burdening sufferings for sure.

Who is to blame?

When the objects of shame are pushed away, when does the neocortex have the open space and time to process and see them from the most insightful perspective, i.e. that there's no one to blame, and possibilities to anticipate and be disinclined to repeat those behaviors?

[avare]

When the objects of shame are pushed away, when does the neocortex have the open space and time to process and see them from the most insightful perspective, i.e. that there's no one to blame, and possibilities to anticipate and be disinclined to repeat those behaviors?

could you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure I get what you mean by this :)

[bluzulu]

Do you know logically there is no one to blame?

Do you believe that shame makes one a "better" person somehow?

Or that it is wrong not to feel shame about harmful behavior in the past vs simply learn from it and, if possible, make amends?

[avare]

Ah, thank you for the reply, that clears things up :)

Do you know logically there is no one to blame?

Do you believe that shame makes one a "better" person somehow?

Or that it is wrong not to feel shame about harmful behavior in the past vs simply learn from it and, if possible, make amends?

I know logically there is no one to blame, and do not think at all that feeling shame helps or makes one better. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not feeling shame, in fact I would say there is no need to feel it.

[bluzulu]

there is some aversion to just sitting with them, as if they will make my mood worse or make me face uncomfortable truths about my behavior, such as a disconnect between who I believe myself to be and what actually looking at how I am acting implies.

Is this shame?

What happens when shame gets enough attention that attention is lost to everything else that is happening now?