Is it possible?

[Maryann]

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

The content of thoughts are about an apple. About isn't actual experience.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Apple is a label, a description. All there is is a collection of things that together form the label apple. The shape, taste, scent, the sensation of round, hardness. The label is very useful.
I kind of get this but not totally. I think that if I came into contact with a fruit (or any item) that I'd never had a memory of and wasn't given a name of, I would easier see that there was just what could be seen, touched etc.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, but since this is the same as what we do with "self " it is better to use something known.

Next...

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[Maryann]

How is the movement controlled?

It isn't controlled.

Does a thought control it?

No

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

No decision is made

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

It happened automatically.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No but I seem to be an observer of the hand moving. There is observation of the hand turning.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Maryann,

We're looking for a shift in perception.

How does it FEEL to see that there's no "you" turning the hand?

Loving,

[Maryann]

How does it FEEL to see that there's no "you" turning the hand?

This question isn't making an impression, it's not getting through. The hand turns and then the thought I did it. For a flash when I first did it there was a twilight zone moment. But I've turned it or it's turned many times since then and there's no shift in perception. It's just kind of accepted.

[Anastacia42]

That's okay. We're not trying to "make an impression. " We are observing Direct Experience. That's all.

Scan your body for Sensations, particularly tension & relaxation.

Reply with what is found.

Loving

[Maryann]

We are observing Direct Experience. That's all.

Oh good :) I was putting pressure on myself to have a 'change in perception' that wasn't happening. Observing direct experience sounds a lot more relaxing. I'll scan and reply tomorrow.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

It is not difficult. It is not mysterious. In actual fact there is NOTHING THERE. Ýou can see that.

The *idea* of "self" is a lie feeling of contraction plus the lie thought of a "self." That's it.

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes us accident prone."

Sunryu Suzuki

We cannot predict it and we cannot make it happen. We can only practice the conditions in which it is more likely.

This frustrates the mind because it wants everything to be linear and logical and step-by-step, but this is not. It is non linear and unpredictable.

Loving,

[Maryann]

Hi Stacy,

This frustrates the mind because it wants everything to be linear and logical and step-by-step, but this is not. It is non linear and unpredictable.

I was hoping for a sudden realization. Like when I suddenly realised that the loving father figure God that I had been taught to believe in was seen to be made up. And the rare glimpses were sudden, not step by step or linear. Just the absence of what I believed I was.

Scan your body for Sensations, particularly tension & relaxation.
Reply with what is found.

Spasming pain sensation. Tension in bended knees. Pressure of butt on chair and feet on floor. Pressure arms on desk. Tightness in abdomen. I don't notice any feelings of relaxation. I feel like I'm ready to run with a herd of elephants chasing me. That thought seemed funny and I relaxed a bit.

[Anastacia42]

Good noticing of Sensations.

was hoping for a sudden realization.

That is unpredictable. Might be, but might be gradual.

Loving,

[Maryann]

However, is an apple actually known?

'Apple' is an idea. The thing itself doesn't have a name. It's just what can be seen, tasted, smelt and felt. The naming label jumps in very quickly.

[Anastacia42]

Exactly. Good.

Now this:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[Maryann]

How is the movement controlled?

It isn't controlled. It just happens.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

There isn't a decision made. It happens when it happens. I tried saying in thought that I was going to turn the hand over and it didn't turn. So it's not my decision when and if it turns.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

It feels more natural to start with the right hand because I am right handed so I automatically used the right hand. I didn't make a decision to use that one.
quote]Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?[/quote]No

How does it FEEL to see that there's no "you" turning the hand?

It doesn't feel odd because I think that I already see that things just happen and I'm only aware of what is currently happening.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, good.

How does it FEEL to see this? More body Sensation than how it does not feel.


Loving,

[Maryann]

How does it FEEL to see this? More body Sensation than how it does not feel.

The body feels comfortable to see this as no effort is required to turn the hand.