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[Emac1122]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I’ve read the Gateless Gate and through the EQ. I also read a book by the Dalai Lama entitled “How to See Yourself as You Really Are.” It’s my understanding that the “I” that we perceive as a separate self or entity does not truly exist and that our feelings, sensations and thoughts convince us that there is a separate self that doesn’t truly exist

What are you looking for at LU? I’ve been applying the exercises and trying to be aware during the day of my thoughts. Every once in awhile I feel like the “I” drops away, but quickly reasserts itself. At LU I am looking for a guide who can help me finally drop the I.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I’m hoping that through pointed conversation that the dissonance between my feeling that there is an I and the truth of the I results in the “I” dropping away. Even though I’ve read through the Gateless Gate and EQ I still have a questions and think it would be helpful to have an experienced guide, someone who has gone through the process to ask questions and get guidance.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have been Buddhist for many years. I’ve participated in a few retreats including with Adyashanti and Rupert Spira. Most of my retreats have been either mantra recitation or tranquility meditation. I’ve also participated in a number of guided meditations. After these retreats I would often feel a sense of open awareness or feel like the I had dropped away, but it would not be long before it was fully reestablished. Sometimes when this happens I often feel more like I’m dissociated rather than more connected to the world, which makes me wonder what in fact I am experiencing. Maybe this is just some type of altered state, which is not what I’m looking for. I am only interested in truth, not an altered state. I feel that I am driven to find the truth and will always try to find it. Even though I’ve done a number of retreats, I have never focused specifically on trying to recognize that there is no I. I really hope that an experienced guide from LU can help me take this next step.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?

11

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Thanks for your patience in waiting for a guide. I know it has been quite a while. I’m happy to be with you in this inquiry.

What name shall I call you here?

In gratitude,
Becca

[Emac1122]

Hi
Thank you for reaching out to me. I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to res. I’ve been having a lot of issues logging on. So glad to hear from you. Looking forward to starting and really appreciate your time

Erin

[graceabounds]

Hi Erin,

Great.

Can you tell me more about this?

Every once in awhile I feel like the “I” drops away, but quickly reasserts itself. At LU I am looking for a guide who can help me finally drop the I.

What is the experience of it dropping away? What is experienced when it reasserts?

After these retreats I would often feel a sense of open awareness or feel like the I had dropped away, but it would not be long before it was fully reestablished. Sometimes when this happens I often feel more like I’m dissociated rather than more connected to the world, which makes me wonder what in fact I am experiencing. Maybe this is just some type of altered state

We definitely aren’t after any special state here. Does this openness happen around retreats or at other times?
Is the experience pleasant or unpleasant?

-Becca

[Emac1122]

Hi Becca,
Hope you’re well.
I’m not sure if there is some specific way you want me to respond? I’ve pulled out your questions and placed them in quotes then responded below each.
“What is the experience of it dropping away? What is experienced when it reasserts?”
The experience of dropping away feels like an open sense of presence or being. It is difficult to describe. I am aware of sounds and sights, but don’t have a sense of “being me.” Thoughts, sights, and sounds can come and go. I experience everything, but I don’t get lost or stuck in my thoughts. I can experience this while I’m walking the dog, running, often if I’m meditating.
When the I comes back, it feels like I’m closed off from that expansive feeling. I’m caught in my thoughts or emotions. Rather than experiencing things as they come up I feel separate and small.

“We definitely aren’t after any special state here. Does this openness happen around retreats or at other times?”
It often happens during or after retreats. Sometimes it happens while I’m meditating or running or just before I fall asleep. There was this meditation exercise we did during a retreat I was on where we first would focus on our heart space for a while then we were asked to expand our consciousness to everything beyond. The sense of difference is profound. If I concentrate, I can often experience that sense of an expanded self, but to experience it I have to tune into it and I feel like I have to consciously try to become aware. I don’t think that is an altered state, but it is not something that I think I feel on a regular basis, or maybe I’m just not aware of it?

“Is the experience pleasant or unpleasant? “
My first thought was that it is a pleasant experience, but actually when I think about it, it is neither particularly pleasant nor unpleasant. I guess it’s pleasant in that I seem to be less likely to get sucked in by strong emotions or endless thoughts and I feel more aware, but also separate or insulated from things. I’m having a hard time describing the feeling. When I’ve read other peoples descriptions on the I dropping away they seem to report feeling more engaged with everything, not separate. Perhaps I’m reading to much into that description….

Yours,
Erin

[graceabounds]

Hello Erin,

Yes, it is best to set down as much as possible the expectations for what the experience of this gatecrashing will look like. It could be a large event or series of smaller insights, the important thing is the shift in perspective. 100 people will experience and describe awakening in 100 different ways.

The experience of dropping away feels like an open sense of presence or being. It is difficult to describe. I am aware of sounds and sights, but don’t have a sense of “being me.”
…
The sense of difference is profound. If I concentrate, I can often experience that sense of an expanded self, but to experience it I have to tune into it and I feel like I have to consciously try to become aware.

So if the ‘me’ is not present who is it that chooses to concentrate? Does ‘me’ come and go? What specifically is absent?

When the I comes back, it feels like I’m closed off from that expansive feeling

Is the expansive feeling accessible now? Right now, underneath, in the gap between thoughts?
If so, what is the experience of the expansive feeling in the body?

What happens in the body when “stuck in my thoughts”?

Rather than experiencing things as they come up I feel separate and small.

See if this moment of transition can be caught and looked at… what happens? What are the components of ‘feel’? Is it a thought, an emotion, a direct body sensation?

Also here is a quick 2 minute tutorial on how to use the quote function on this forum:
https://youtu.be/QCbZYSvnTpc?si=-ptOj37SDWfIoBUd

In gratitude,
Becca

[Emac1122]

Hi Graceabounds,
Wow, I’ve read through your questions and have really sat with them to try to really get a sense of what your asking, so I can respond, but have to admit that I’m a bit lost. I’m not sure about some of these answers and feel like I might need some more time to contemplate.
I wasn’t sure - am I expected to try to respond on a daily basis or when I can.

Also, I’m going on vacation in Europe for a couple weeks. I’ll try to check here regularly, but not sure how often I’ll be able to respond.
Thank you again for your thoughtful questions. I will continue to try to think about these.

So if the ‘me’ is not present who is it that chooses to concentrate?

I don’t know who or what chooses to concentrate if it’s not “me.” I feel like I make decisions. If I try to sense what is under that sense of ‘me,’ I can identify things like my body or mind, but know those things are not ‘me.’ Me is a label I give those things, but when I really look I can see that they are not me.

Does ‘me’ come and go?

I do feel like the ‘me’ comes and goes. Sometimes that idea of me feels more solid and specific than other times. When I really try to look or feel the me, I can’t find it, only sensations, thoughts or feelings.

What specifically is absent

When the sense of ‘me’ goes I sometimes, but not always feel that I am living in the moment, like I’m present but just open to sights, sounds, thoughts, or feelings without a filter. The filter is ‘me’ commenting on everything.

Is the expansive feeling accessible now? Right now, underneath, in the gap between thoughts?
If so, what is the experience of the expansive feeling in the body?

Yes the expansive feeling is accessible whenever I consciously think about it. The feeling in my body is open, expansive, and relaxed.

What happens in the body when “stuck in my thoughts”?

It really depends on what my thoughts are, but I’d say for the most part I’m completely unaware of my body when I’m caught up in my thoughts.

See if this moment of transition can be caught and looked at… what happens? What are the components of ‘feel’? Is it a thought, an emotion, a direct body sensation

?
I have been unable to catch this moment, but will continue to try.

[graceabounds]

Great, Erin,

Lost is a good place to start actually. You are reaching for how to answer these questions, so let’s talk first about how to look.

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

So more time to contemplate is not necessary, it will take the time it takes to LOOK.

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for a while.

Observe how the mind is dividing and labeling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.

Give it some time…
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience.

I don’t know who or what chooses to concentrate if it’s not “me.” I feel like I make decisions. If I try to sense what is under that sense of ‘me,’ I can identify things like my body or mind, but know those things are not ‘me.’ Me is a label I give those things, but when I really look I can see that they are not me

Yes, precisely. Me is a label. Here is a simple little exercise to work with to get under the lid of that habit.

Throughout the day, when a thought about "I" or “me” comes up, replace the letter!

"I want to have this" -> "O want to have this"
… Can "O" want to have anything?
No.
How then could "I" want to have anything?

"I don't like that" -> "A don't like that"
…Can "A" dislike anything?
No.
How come there is an idea that "I" can dislike anything?

Observe this and report what comes up.

I do feel like the ‘me’ comes and goes. Sometimes that idea of me feels more solid and specific than other times. When I really try to look or feel the me, I can’t find it, only sensations, thoughts or feelings.

When the “me” is present, what exactly is present that is absent when the “me” is gone?

The filter is ‘me’ commenting on everything.

Great. Is the commentary itself the self?


As for posting each day, it is part of the guidelines for using this forum so that there is momentum. But vacations happen, life happens, and sometimes this is not possible. Do your best and thanks for communicating that there may be some gaps when traveling.

Enjoy your trip!
Becca