good place

[graceabounds]

an excuse to go unconscious / to not look at something?

Is it possible to experience unconscious? To not look? Is there a chooser selecting that?

I thought there is some underlying ground of truth: Wants, Desires, Agenda.

NOW. It seems thoughts might not reflect anything but themselves. No Agenda even underlying anything.

Does the body have an agenda? perferences? Take a look.

[daisyrain]

is it possible to experience unconscious? To not look? Is there a chooser selecting that?

That feels like a suprise to the body to question.
To question whether "getting lost in thought" is going unconscious.
A tension is felt (it's actually face / legs).

No clue what's going on, but the body reacts quite a bit.
When taking "no answer" or what is as an answer, there's no unconsciousness to be found. Only tension. Hm.
Being unconscious would be a thought. It can only point to a past.

is there a chooser selecting it (unconsciousness)?

It's a little weird. This whole "no answer" thing. Let me.get this straight in order to formulate a response to you.

Ähm. There's experience as it is. Right. It doesn't really provide answers. It just is. But taking it as it is, without looking for an answer, I can't find a chooser here either. Which is an answer.

But I also can't find...(and hui, a scary sensation comes!)

Oh, so tired. Let's get this moving.

Does the body have an agenda? perferences? Take a look.

There's no answer really, but also no preference. Very intense though

[daisyrain]

Now I got something.
Believing in a do-er or feeling like "I have done this" implies agenda Agenda.

At least here that's the case and a common hiccup.

Some actions feel like they are done by me, like "I am looking at X, (this is what I want)"

So with the sense of a do-er occuring it makes sense to question underlying agenda :)

[graceabounds]

Yes. A do-er is never neutral and there is usually movement toward, away from, or against something.

Tell me more about the do-er ‘feeling’.

What discomfort is that agenda trying to move away from right now?

Does the organism, the body, have agenda?

[daisyrain]

What discomfort is that agenda trying to move away from right now?

There is discomfort. It's like it's right behind me. Of course, that's a thought image. It feels like a fresh sensation in the lower back and the backside of the knees.

Thought" it feels like my heart drops.

There is a freshness really. That is the "discomfort " I can find. A thought label "afraid" lightly on top.

Huh. A feeling like everythinga pinned in place. What's that?

(Coming at this again, later)

It's like the discomfort is not being able to drag or grab anything. Ot contextualise.

It could be the discomfort of not knowing...?
It's not that bad really.

Tell me more about the do-er ‘feeling’.

Huh. I guess it's somewhat like a thick, sticky substance. But does that make sense? I guess it feels like it has volume and viscosity, but under inspection I find air. Or space. Like it's air painted to look like it has a shell. It seems so much like its there's a boundary, an independent thing. A shell, separating this feeling. It feels like "me".
In the body this is felt as legs, forehead, skin under the eyes. Lips also. Side of the head. Lips again. Upper legs. Eyebrows. Heart (?). Side of face. Face, Lips. Face again. Stomach. Cheeks.

Thought: I'm exhausted.

Does the organism, the body, have agenda?

Actually looking for agenda, its not found

[graceabounds]

It's like the discomfort is not being able to drag or grab anything. Ot contextualise.

It could be the discomfort of not knowing...?

So the discomfort is a reaching by the mechanism of thought? Keep checking that there is no one doing this, owning this reaching… peer through it.

I guess it's somewhat like a thick, sticky substance. But does that make sense? I guess it feels like it has volume and viscosity, but under inspection I find air. Or space. Like it's air painted to look like it has a shell. It seems so much like its there's a boundary, an independent thing. A shell, separating this feeling. It feels like "me".

Sit in the space.

You are seeing this but I will re-ask:

Is ‘shell’ or ‘boundary’ ever found outside of sensation + thought-labels ABOUT sensation?

Without the word “me,” what is actually there?

Is boundary directly experienced?

The sensation will remain… Look for the actual thing the feeling claims exists.

[daisyrain]

So the discomfort is a reaching by the mechanism of thought?

Yeah…
A while ago you pointed towards the mechanism of trying to understand as a source of dissatisfaction.
I think this is the same, but today it clicks, somewhat.
It feels like the mind is trying to create "things" all the time. Things the mind can grab and understand, inspect.
Inspecting the mechanism itself however is really intriguing, and a very bodily experience.

Keep checking that there is no one doing this, owning this reaching… peer through it.

yeah, uhm. the thought "I" (like: I am checking this and that) is definitely one of those mind-things.
Though, it seems like there's a foggy sensation connected to it?

Feels like Face and Lips. Ah, why is it always that? okay. Hands. Oh yeah, very full sensation on hands now.

There was a very unknown feeling right now. A bit of a deep nothingness, even nothing to do. Frightening, that such would even be possible.

(I answered about the "doer feeling", describing a shell) Is ‘shell’ or ‘boundary’ ever found outside of sensation + thought-labels ABOUT sensation?

Eyelids or cheeks or hands are coming up. Skin sensation and thought about "shell".
There's a thought image of almost a black sludge or so, where as is complemented by a sensation being in the legs.

Without the word “me,” what is actually there?

Is boundary directly experienced?

no, no boundary. surprise and confusion maybe.
if anything i notice assumptions about a world bigger than what I actually experience.
Also defeating exhaustion.

Question, is all that overwhelming exhaustion related to the liberation thing?

connecting the understanding mechanism thing with the doer feeling, the latter gets interestingly not-personal.
Man, I feel confused to the point of having this self image /Felling of being a rambling guy, half deluded, half senile.

[daisyrain]

Without the word “me,” what is actually there?

Nothing I could grab

[graceabounds]

There was a very unknown feeling right now. A bit of a deep nothingness, even nothing to do. Frightening, that such would even be possible.

Frightening? To whom? Could it just as easily be ‘exciting’? Or just a sensation with no interpretation?

There IS nothing to do.
And no one to do it.

Also defeating exhaustion.

Question, is all that overwhelming exhaustion related to the liberation thing?

Seeking is exhausting.
Is doing nothing exhausting? Is it the lack of control exhausting? Is the body just relaxing perhaps?

What is the agenda behind ‘exhaustion’?

[daisyrain]

yeah, so the do-er feeling is here and all, it's quite a warmth even without a doer being found.
really, it's absence in a way is... is it ultimate?
overthinking this probably won't help, but I'm really taking this "with me" throught the day.

The day opened with the possibility to let thoughts be here without resistance to them. Or resistance to the resistance, whatever works at times.
Huh, that still feels like it's done by "me".

Is the body just relaxing perhaps?

asking this as "can this be enjoyable" yields something.
It's not a clear answer, but it's not a "no".
I almost want to defend myself and write "how that doesn't mean I can do anything at all, and how I'm really really exhausted and not to get anyones hopes up". bit of sadness visits here.
Really, this question seems sacrilegious to ask. (not saying it is, just want to describe the resistance against asking it here.)
thought: I'm really worried this exhaustion will make "my life fall apart"

What is the agenda behind "exhaustion"?

oh, it seems exhaustion is a thought. (not sure how that integrates with everyday reality)
there is a tension or pulling rather. coming down as intensity through the leg (left) and foot.

thought: I want to do so many other things.


it's odd. right now it's distinctly a little like I'm able to "see" with my body.
hm. so much "I" and "me" though.


(not much coming up for "frightening today")

[graceabounds]

thought: I'm really worried this exhaustion will make "my life fall apart"

Did it? Fall apart?

Who would be responsible for that?

oh, it seems exhaustion is a thought. (not sure how that integrates with everyday reality)

Great. Don’t worry about integrating, for now just keep hitting an imaginary buzzer when the exhaustion thought arrives. What were the circumstances? Is it true now? What is underneath that label, if anything? What does the imaginary me get from using it?

[daisyrain]

Did it [life]? Fall apart?

Well, no.

Who would be responsible for that?

intensity is felt in the body, buuuuut it might actually be the absence of any intensity that feels like "intensity".
no answer really, just coming and going.

just keep hitting an imaginary buzzer when the exhaustion thought arrives

sounds good :)

What were the circumstances?

oh, I have feelings that I interpret as "being at my limit or a bit beyond" really often.

Is it true now?

Well, it's there. Asking "is this enjoyable?" yields relaxation.

What is underneath that label, if anything? What does the imaginary me get from using it?

it's torture to apply that label "exhaustion".
hm. there is a bit of anger "underneath" it. Impatience and coldness/sternness.
feeling it around my eyes and brows. Feeling tiredness. Relaxing.

I'm not sure if that's the "imaginary-me-agenda", but this exhaustion results in steps not taken.

breathing here.

huh.
oh i hope i won't be stuck here forever, without answers or whatever comes or already came or whatever.
I have no idea what I'm after here and I'm tired of pretending I know.
Sure enough all of this doesn't seem to be a scam, there seems to be something to it all, but Becc, I can't see it.

Tiredness coming. It's a little enjoyable and relaxing.
Labeling this as exhaustion feels so awful, it's just mean. It's just despair.
without labels it's a very bodily experience. it's relaxing.
it's not really a feeling of a thing, but maybe more the absence of a thing.
huh.

[graceabounds]

oh i hope i won't be stuck here forever, without answers or whatever comes or already came or whatever.

ummmm…
There are no answers to satisfy this questioner.
Is anything forever?

What is seen NOW?

[daisyrain]

It's a bit odd. So, I've written a text, but it doesn't exactly make sense. Though there is a misconception/ a doubt it seems to highlight.

what is here now?

There is noone here.
Feels like seeking is still present actually.
I thoughts come and the I is noticed. A lot.
There's definitely a habit, to label things as "I did.." "I am..". Not every one is immediately seen through, though I'm not sure what that means. Also typing would be odd, avoiding I and stuff.

I think there's a habit of taking the "I" thoughts as proof, that nothing is seen.
I'm questioning that. And I'm starting all sentences with that word.
Whatever there is to find or not to find, what "to make of all that"?.

There's a habit to resolve this in thought.

[daisyrain]

Theres also a lot of Buddha fanfiction starring "me" coming in thought.
Still, beside everything that might feel like me, no me found.
Just typing, colours, tension, sound now. Thought . Aw man.