Seeking guidance in direct seeing and dissolving the selfing mechanism

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

So - is it clear beyond doubt that there is no separate self? Ready for the final LU check-point questions?

the sense here is that its clear when enquiry is going on but the clarity is lost in daily life - the exchange in daily life is through a contracted seperate self though sometimes seeing what is actually happening sometimes happens as much as there was just seeing right here right now that there are expectations of how it must be - like you had said :-(

theres not knowing how to respond to the question Elad

Kind Regards
Mila

[Elad]

Hi Mila,

1) Is the not knowing owned by a self?

2) What is this supposed self that daily interactions supposedly occur through? Don't think about it, don't try to change or get rid of something, just take your time and really look and really be 100% honest. What is actually there?

[Elad]

Also:

"When "inquiring" (paying attention) the difference is seen between dreaming in the night and being awake, but when dreaming happens at night, this is often not the case"

"When lost in the action of a movie, there is a not being aware that the movie is a movie, but when there is "inquiring" (paying attention) to the nature of the movie, it is seen that this is a movie".

This is how it is here.

Would that make it honest and clrear to say "it is not realized here that movie and dreams is not awake reality, I truly still believe that movies and nightly dreams are awake reality"?

Or, would it be more honest and clear to say: "lostness in movies happen, recognition that movies are movies happen, both are not mine, not me, not a separate self"?

[Elad]

Final thing for now:

there was just seeing right here right now that there are expectations of how it must be - like you had said :-(

Why the unhapopy emoji ?

Being unhappy about recognition typically happens, because there is a belief in a story that there is a me who should have known by now and does not - and fear of an annoyed/dissaproving imagined other.

Is this happening?

Is it true in direct experience or is it just habitual conditioned stories about self/other running?

When the recognition of a pattern is seen AS JUST A PATTERN without it being made "my failure" in a story, the recognition might instead be followed by:

:)

Or

;)

Or

:D


Can a smile or even a laugh happen with recognition now?

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

Wow - thought of "this is hard are here" but are seen to be arising and fading.

1) Is the not knowing owned by a self?

Recognition happened through laughter again … so sticky

2) What is this supposed self that daily interactions supposedly occur through?

It doesnt exist Elad … there was thinking ,,,,

Don't think about it, don't try to change or get rid of something, just take your time and really look and really be 100% honest. What is actually there?

Interpretation of the situation – thoughts - there was seeing just now that it almost ramped up again to express how entangled it is – but that too would have been interpretation (thoughts) about this recognition
With love,
Elad

Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.

- Kahlil Gibran

One gets there by being there.

- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
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Elad
Posts: 2906
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:25 am
Re: Seeking guidance in direct seeing and dissolving the selfing mechanism
•
Postby Elad » Sat May 09, 2026 11:49 am
Also:

"When "inquiring" (paying attention) the difference is seen between dreaming in the night and being awake, but when dreaming happens at night, this is often not the case"

"When lost in the action of a movie, there is a not being aware that the movie is a movie, but when there is "inquiring" (paying attention) to the nature of the movie, it is seen that this is a movie".

This is how it is here.

Would that make it honest and clrear to say "it is not realized here that movie and dreams is not awake reality, I truly still believe that movies and nightly dreams are awake reality"?

No not at all, it is known and seen that these are layered make believe...

Or

, would it be more honest and clear to say: "lostness in movies happen, recognition that movies are movies happen, both are not mine, not me, not a separate self"?

this one, that there is getting lost in movies but also recognition that movies are movies and both are not me, not the separate self

there was just seeing right here right now that there are expectations of how it must be - like you had said :-(

Why the unhappy emoji ?

when the emoji was shared there was deleting and inserting and deleting it and inserting and then finally just inserting it to express a feeling that was here – but you picked it up , indeed there was wondering if it would be received as an expression of a self yet there seemed to be seeing that too

Being unhappy about recognition typically happens, because there is a belief in a story that there is a me who should have known by now and does not - and fear of an annoyed/disapproving imagined other.

This makes sense – and yessss

Is this happening? yes

Is it true in direct experience or is it just habitual conditioned stories about self/other running? Yes – you see it – there is something habitual here –

very much so

When the recognition of a pattern is seen AS JUST A PATTERN without it being made "my failure" in a story, the recognition might instead be followed by:

:)

Or

;)

Or

:D


Can a smile or even a laugh happen with recognition now? It just did but honestly – the machine was revving up then smile came ....

geezzzz

Thanks Elad... theres a bit of confusion but its seen its seen

[Elad]

:D

Beautiful Mila.


Please answer all of the following questions in one message and make sure that you copy each question before the answer so it is easy to connect Q's & A's. Look freshly at each one and answer as simple and clear as possible from direct experience. Be 100% true to what is directly experienced. Once you have answered them we will talk about how to continue. Discovery and integration in the conventional life continues forever, and we will talk about how to move in the most supportive way with that. Take as much time as you want.




1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.



3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue?



4) What was the moment(s) where clarity clicked; describe what happened.



5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control (separately).



6) What makes things happen? How does it work?



7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

Hope all is well with you. Had no electricity here for few days and its winter so heavier sensations were being experienced for sure.

There was a clear bracing sensation to the instructions and it was noticed with much clarity...


1)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now

It is the arising of thoughts that claim some experience through the use of “I” and “Me”, when attention is absorbed into the arisen thoughts and the story (thoughts reflecting other thoughts of past experience or imagined future) and then a thought of I gives all those thoughts some ownership or claim that those thoughts or what is happening is about “IT”. But “IT” too is just a thought arising in something … In those moments of absorbed attention what is present is blurred and even forgotten i.e attention in those moments is not with all else that is here, just like attention at the moment is with this describing experience and the story being told here in the context of “YOUR” experience – which the question carries due to how lived experience is happening, so already there was imagining of past experience, the bodys movements – all thoughts and now expression of all that as mine or I for purposes of talking.

3)

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue?

There is relief and frustration. Relief because when there is remembrance, theres relaxation and cessation of responsibility of carrying it all, of being the one that must choose correctly, do correctly blah blah but there is also frustration when there is realisation that there was absorption into the story and even right there with that very realistion there is sometimes yet another realisation that the frustration is another avenue of getting lost in the story



4)

What was the moment(s) where clarity clicked; describe what happened.

It was definitely moments not moment - small openings occurred in the conversations with you as responses were being typed the thoughts and their volition for a self combined with the enquiry at hand were very exposing and very clarifying – paradoxically so , and further clarification during the exercises however the one day as jogging was happening and listening to the questions was happening deep clarity occurred there was just movement, colour, shapes and sound – it was so hilarious, infact there had also been a knowing that if experience was what mind had stored , then there was nothing around and this was shared with you but it still seemed like a knowing of mind…. Its really the experience of sound colour shapes and movement that had a funny sensation and created hilariousness of it all



5)

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control (separately).

Decision :

Decision is a label, a word describing the start of thoughts on experience/appearance/movement – really?

Intention:

Concept describing Thoughts of imagination /future thoughts – my gosh

Free will:

Free will has always been a confusing lable but theres recognition now that everything appears on its own volition so its just a concept , there is no one to have free will… free will describes volition – possibly the bracing of the selfing mechanism

Choice:

laughing is happening, thought, concept , no one to choose – attention getting absorbed and the “I” thought claiming experience – really Elad – my gosh – goosebumps are happening here – is this true – my gosh thoughts of “I cant deal” appearing here, so much laughing here ...

Control:

a lable describing a sensation of contraction

6)

What makes things happen?

How does it work? Things are just happening, they appear and disappear then the mechanism of thought stored in the mind keeps giving them an appearance and creating stories. Reinforcement seems to be the way it works

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

At this moment – there is a sense that there is no “I” that is responsible for anything … theres always been a sense that life will do or does what life wants …

Theres been a desire to go for Vipassana again, and some fear of the last experience of leaving the body (day 5 or so) (no there is wondering about who it is that left hahha) but I have been accepted so there is suspicion that that will be explored again between 27th May and 7th June

Kindest and warmest regards
Mila

[Elad]

Dear Mila

I and 3 other guides looked at your answers, and it all sounds clear to us, meaning you "graduated LU". How does it feel? Write me freely about this, then we will talk about how to continue from here.

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

There were no words and a huge pause - that was what was experienced when the message was read. like a blank ... a gentle gentle smile but mostly a blank

there is a sense that ... in a manner of speaking .... some unravelling has been activated ... meditations are really different, teachings (pointings ) are seen ... language - especially in the absence of another - is almost completely penetrated ..

There were thoughts of "being abandoned" but thoughts all the same... there has been a lot of looking into the thoughts of abondonement over the years (years being other thought about time and other thoughts heheheh) - what a pleasure to now know what all that was - so much laughter right now. Theres ofcourse also a knowing that being with what arises in the moment matters more than being with knowing otherwise bypassing happens and the selfing mechanism continues

You asked "how does it feel and to write freely", Theres a sense of acceptance and Trust that the "I " has been walked to where it needed to and that the unravelling that has been activated is on schedule :-) so to speak

"I" received an email offer on integration platforms and theres gratitude for this and immense gratitude for the service "you" have offered ...

another pause and another pause and another pause

Thank you so much

Kind and warm regards
Metta
Metta
Metta
Metta

May our "I"s be happy
May our "you"s be safe
May all beings live with ease and remember remembering

Mila - the pause is very apparent - keeps being seen

[Elad]

Thank you for this beautiful sincere sharing. I would recommend any time there is a sense an insuficient unawake self or anything like that, look at it, look what is imagined to be a self, and is it? And what is really there? It will deepen clarity.

While this ends the formal intial LU process, I am happy to stay in touch. You can continue writing me on this thread if you want to ask questions or update. Or write to my email.

Beside that, here is a list of resources, ways to explore and connect:

1)

Three weekly free zoom meetings which offer a space to listen, share and offer guidance around awakening, as and if the inclination arises, with friend and fellow guide Vince Schubert. Please contact Vince Schubert via email: vinceschubert@gmail.com for a link and schedule. Or check his web page https://1ness.info/

2)

Simply Awake app - Free app for your phone that contains dozens of meditation that will help you to keep looking deeper.

Also a great video from Angelo Dilullo on this process and how it deepens on its own, if not resisted, YouTube: Simply Always Awake "Self and No-Self":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X_Xpd10pV0&t=38s


3)


If you're interested in the 10 fetters Buddhist model (what we did here pertains to the first 3) go to Kevin Shanilek's website for information:

https://simplytheseen.com/

Also a good video conversation with Ilona and Kevin Shanilek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xWfBHN6oRk


-------


Todd and Pernille Lent Damore offer many videos on each fetter, from a different, more psychologically minded approach, on their YouTube Channels:

Unfettered Mindfulness and The Awakening Curriculum

--------


Some people like Kevins approach more, some like theirs, some both in different ways.... In continuation of Kevins approach there is also Christiane Michelbergers "Finding Awakening" community on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1Av8vfhMct/

And Craig's Fetterfree group, free of charge weekly meetings exploring fetters mainly in Kevins approach:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/715430672860996


4)

POK Perfectly Okay.Org:

https://perfectlyokay.org/ - A large, free of charge, supportive awakening community that has many different modalities and meetings, generally free of charge.

Every second Wednesday Becca (another LU guide and friend) and I hold free of charge meetings there for people who work with other people, as guides, or in processes that might combine awakening and therapy or healing.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1112255896719535

Speaking of that, once this settles some, you might want to guide in LU. Guiding also guides us - can bring up blind spots and areas where we might benefit from looking freshly. I mentor new guides in LU and could mentor you if you want to embark on guiding at some point.


5)

Becca and I also have a weekly sangha called Awake Collective. It is relatively new and it seems focused on very raw and honest exchanges, energetic aspects of aweakening process, and shadow work, in a context where some people have seen through seperate self and some have not, but everybody have a lot to contribute have done a fair amount of shadow work and/or inquiry, waking up and growing up processes.... This group has a members fee, but anyone who sincerely wanna be a part can, no matter what their economic situation is.


6)

Finally Ilona Cuinaite who was one of the founders of LU has I believe monthly meetings. https://ilonaciunaite.com/


-------

It's been a gift to do this with you!

[Milamoh]

Thank you so much Elad, there is a thought here imagining that this is about commitment to really looking as you have mostly expressed - especially "anytime time there is a sense an insufficient unawake self or anything like that"...

I have noted all the platforms - some I already follow - am looking forward to being part of the others and appreciate - alot a lot that you are willing to stay in touch


Grattitude and warmth shared and experienced here Elad
Mila