Help me to enlighten

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

Would you like to review DE exercises

?

Yes definitely.

Ok. You'll probably remember these exercises, but I'd like you to do them again as if it's the first time.

1. Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile.
Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing
them with stories about what they are.

Give it some time.

Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe
the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE).

Let me know what this exercise is like for you.

2. Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you
can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

For example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct
experience) and report back how it goes.

Now, look for the self in DE.
What do you find?
Is it any different after doing the DE exercises?

In your last message, you wrote:

It is an awareness I suppose, more than a thing.. a thing would be something I can see, touch, but this is more like a presence. It is like a state I suppose…

What is this "awareness" or "presence" in DE?

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hi Liam

Hope all is well 🥰

Let me know what this exercise is like for you.

Blank, clear, nice, calm. I have been doing this exercise quite frequently during different times of the day etc. especially in the car driving to and from work, looking at trees, traffic.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct
experience) and report back how it goes.

Now lots of the time am on autopilot so don’t remember to do it - but I realise how ‘flowy’ my life is even when I’m on autopilot so I can certainly see a difference to how I used to be(more controlling, believing in thougts). I will often do the ‘hearing, seeing, sensation , warmth of leg on chair etc…) I seem to be doing it more naturally.

Now, look for the self in DE.
What do you find?

I cannot find a self. However, feel like a seer, but I know this is thoughts. I can also literally see the body as part of other things , colours, other people etc I can see the flowiness, all together, seamlessly , everyone playing a part in this togetherness…

Is it any different after doing the DE exercises?

Yes, more aware of sensations, thoughts, seeing.

What is this "awareness" or "presence" in DE?

It is a stillness that is Always here, mostly see it when I focus on it. It is the part to be seen without the thoughts running the show.

Thank you so much,

Lots of love,

Nic x

[Kaiho]

Hi Nic

Thanks for these responses.

What is this 'awareness' or 'presence' in DE?

It is a stillness that is Always here, mostly see it when I focus on it. It is the part to be seen without the thoughts running the show.

Let's go back to exercise #2:
Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

For example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how it goes.

Which category of DE is 'awareness' and 'presence' in?
You say that you "mostly see it when [you] focus on it."
Is it image/colour? Why or why not?
Is it thought? Why or why not?

Here's another DE exercise that might help clarify things. Many of the questions in blue are answered in the text, but please go through and answer them yourself.
Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.
When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought
saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure?
Colour is known and thoughts are known.
What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something, because that is only just
more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual
experience.
This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is
always here.
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known.
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known.
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched).
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known.
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known.
However, is an apple actually known?

Is this clear?

Now let's go back to the question: What is this 'awareness' or 'presence' in DE?

Many nondual teachers talk about awareness. This can be confusing. Can you find awareness in DE?

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hello Liam
I am back on !
Thank you so much for your guidance xxx

Hi Nic

Good morning! The LU site keeps crashing this morning, so I can't post the messages we exchange there, but here are some questions to investigate awareness.

Can there be awareness without objects?

Yes!awareness is everything including objects.

When you are walking down the road, are you always "aware" that you are walking

?

No, have often thought that my mind has been ‘elsewhere’ when I saw this happening. Now I know that’s it’s because there is no mind really.

You are aware of the letters on the screen now, right?

yes.

Are awareness and the letters separate?

This one really got me. Initially I would have said yes, but I think awareness and the letters are all together.

Would the letters exist without awareness?

No! As I wouldn’t see them or be aware of them. This must mean I am awareness.

Would awareness of the letters exist without the letters?

This one got me as well! No, awareness of the letters wouldn’t exist as awareness holds everything including the letters.

Love,
Liam

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic,

Sorry for the delay. I'm going to post our exchanges by email now. This was your response to the exercises and questions I posted on April 27:

I have emailed LU as still can't get in. There's no  link at all now when I reset password! 

I have been doing practice. 

Been doing DE. 

Awareness and presence is not in DE. I cannot see it or smell it or hear it. It is the natural sort of resting place where the thoughts aren't taking over. 

This is so hard to explain! It isn't image really or colour it is um nothing?! 

It isn't thought although thoughts will label it. I can focus and know it is there. It is the real life thing, seeing that... but really it is a word 'awareness'. 

Re an apple. So an  apple or any other object, is a colour, different from other colours, a shape, a bite would be 'taste'. However, apple is just a word re to label it. 

That got me then 'is there really an apple here? Or only colour and thought about it' as I know 'Apple' is a word but might have thought it's here too. So it is colour and thought. 

I guess everthing is colour and thought isn't it ... including 'me'.and movement. 

Cannot find awareness or presence in DE! I am more used to seeing or knowing'this' since doing this work and now less likely to label it as awareness? It is just copies and thoughts and a more stillness or less inclination to get carried along with thoughts or labelling. I see it often now.... without labelling as awareness or presence. So awareness or presence are words. When thoughts are racing and contractions in body like sensations are happening it can feel
Very real like a me but other times I can see thoughts separate and life happening as I think it's meant to be. 

Thank you so much,

Love Nic xx

[Kaiho]

Here are the questions I emailed you in response:

Hi Nic

Good morning! The LU site keeps crashing this morning, so I can't post the messages we exchange there, but here are some questions to investigate awareness.

Can there be awareness without objects? 

When you are walking down the road, are you always "aware" that you are walking? 

You are aware of the letters on the screen now, right?

Are awareness and the letters separate?

Would the letters exist without awareness? 

Would awareness of the letters exist without the letters? 

Love,

Liam

[Kaiho]

Hello again, Nic

Finally, here are your most recent responses to my questions:

Can there be awareness without objects?

Yes!awareness is everything including objects.

When you are walking down the road, are you always "aware" that you are walking?

No, have often thought that my mind has been ‘elsewhere’ when I saw this happening. Now I know that’s it’s because there is no mind really.

You are aware of the letters on the screen now, right?

yes.

Are awareness and the letters separate?

This one really got me. Initially I would have said yes, but I think awareness and the letters are all together.

Would the letters exist without awareness?

No! As I wouldn’t see them or be aware of them. This must mean I am awareness.

Would awareness of the letters exist without the letters?

This one got me as well! No, awareness of the letters wouldn’t exist as awareness holds everything including the letters.

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

I tried to post all the messages we exchanged by email while you were having difficulties accessing any website. I think one of them might be missing, but let's just go with what we have.

Here are some new questions in response to your answers:

Can there be awareness without objects?

Yes!awareness is everything including objects.

When you write, ‘awareness is everything including objects’, I think I have an idea why you say this. This question is tricky though. Let's first consider it without thinking about Direct Experience (DE): Can there be awareness without objects (of awareness)? The first word in your answer is 'yes', but have you ever been aware without being aware of anything?

Now let's look at each part of the question in terms of DE.
Can we find 'objects' in DE?
'Objects' in general is a label (not in DE), so let's go back to the 'apple' exercise that we reviewed recently.

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.
When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure?
Colour is known and thoughts are known.
What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something, because that is only just
more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual
experience.
This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known.
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known.
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched).
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known.
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known.
However, is an apple actually known?

Now let’s go back to the question, ‘Can we find 'objects' in DE?’
Just as apple is not known in DE (only taste, color, sensation, and thought), likewise other objects are not known in DE.

Notice the way the questions in the apple exercise were asked: ‘What is known for sure?’ One might label this ‘being known’ or ‘knowing’ awareness, but it’s important not to reify awareness--that is, not to think of awareness as an object. The ‘being known’ or ‘knowing’ of taste, color, etc is not an object.

When we say, ‘colour is known,’ at first, it might seem like we could separate that DE into two parts, ‘colour’ and ‘known’ or ‘knowing.’ But, ‘colour’ and ‘known’ are not separate. You said this yourself when you answered the question:

Are awareness and the letters separate?

This one really got me. Initially I would have said yes, but I think awareness and the letters are all together.

You're right that the letters and the awareness of the letters can't be separated.

So, let’s go back to the question, ‘What is awareness in DE?’

When you are walking down the road, are you always "aware" that you are walking?

No, have often thought that my mind has been ‘elsewhere’ when I saw this happening. Now I know that’s it’s because there is no mind really.

Very good. There is no mind in DE.

Would the letters exist without awareness?

No! As I wouldn’t see them or be aware of them. This must mean I am awareness.

Careful here. Look for the 'I' (the Self) in DE. Can you find it?
Can you find awareness in DE?

Would awareness of the letters exist without the letters?

This one got me as well! No, awareness of the letters wouldn’t exist as awareness holds everything including the letters.

The way you write, 'awareness holds everything including the letters', indicates that awareness is somehow outside of the letters, 'holding' them and everything else. Since awareness is not separable from the letters, how could it be outside holding them?

This is a lot to work with. I'll be away on retreat from May 29 until June 8, and I won't be checking email at this time. Would you like someone else to reply if you have questions during this time?

Love
Liam