Removing the illusion

[Pwkitchen]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That your guidance will help me realize that the collection of thoughts, impulses, stories, emotions, and concepts of self do not amount to a real “thing” or fixed self. That there is no self separate from experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance on freeing myself from this confining concept of a separate self who the world “happens to” in a real and lasting sense — off the mat as well as on. I meditate regularly but I feel I still lack a real and lasting insight into the illusory self. I feel moments of profound lightness, of simply being, from time to time, on-mat. I am unsure that I’ve had a real insight about this yet, however. It feels fleeting and I feel that the mere fact that I debate “is this it” must mean that it’s not.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A direct pointing at the illusion of self as a separate “thing” and the true nature of reality, this moment, being. I need guidance on where I am going wrong or may be bypassing or may simply be sitting in a state of no-thought rather than a genuine experience of being without the illusion of self. I lack structured guidance from someone who has “been there” — my aim is to liberate myself NOW, and I believe guidance can help.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Years of on-and-off meditation: Vippassana/insight, meta, Ānāpānasati, some trekcho, inquiry into self, eg. “Who is this person that mediates - who is the “I” — this particular practice has been somewhat useful for me but again, I have this nagging sense that I’m conceptualizing rather than experiencing. Hopefully that makes sense. I.e., I seem to academically understand that there is no real fixed “I” (as separate) - its just a bundle of “stuff” … I am less confident that I have had genuine insight around this. I am hoping for a direct pointing; not looking to “add to” or escape or experience some altered state.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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[poppyseed]

Hi Pwkitchen
(what do you want me to call you?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Please confirm that you have read them
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.

What time zone are you in?
Love
Rali

[Pwkitchen]

(what do you want me to call you?)

Pat

What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Understood. Please let me know if you think I give you a "thinking" answer rather than a "looking" answer. I will do my best here.

That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry.

This is a relief. I am quite sure that piling on teachings, philosophies, reason, etc. is pushing me further and further from something I suspect is dead-simple. I will continue my regular meditation practice as suggested.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …”

This area of the site appears to be broken, at least on my browsers (Chrome and Safari). But I think I get the gist, presumably, based on the above blurb about what Liberation unleashed is ... I take that it is not another set of practices, teachings, dogma, spirituality, philosophy, science, etc.

One question: have I used the question and answer format correctly, or do you prefer that one and only one "quote" + "response" is given in each reply? I.e., if you send me a message that has several parts I want to reply to (as above), is this format acceptable or should each be its own separate post?

Thank you, I look forward to inquiring into what is - thank you so very much for your guidance.

Pat

[Pwkitchen]

What time zone are you in?

Sorry, missed this one. I am in central time today. Tomorrow and Sunday I will me in Mountain. Monday and beyond I will be in Pacific. I am moving from Texas to California, but do not wish to put this off until after the move - I will be available to explore this inquiry together on a daily basis. Replies may just come at odd times over the next few days. Thanks for bearing with me!

[poppyseed]

Hi Pat

Good to see you here as well :)

Please let me know if you think I give you a "thinking" answer rather than a "looking" answer. I will do my best here.

I will most certainly do that ;)

This area of the site appears to be broken, at least on my browsers (Chrome and Safari). But I think I get the gist, presumably, based on the above blurb about what Liberation unleashed is ... I take that it is not another set of practices, teachings, dogma, spirituality, philosophy, science, etc.

Yes, you are right. It seems to be inaccessible at the moment. You can try maybe in a few days just to make sure that you are clear about that, but yeah you are on the right track.

I am in central time today. Tomorrow and Sunday I will me in Mountain. Monday and beyond I will be in Pacific.

I'm GMT+2. We have a bit of a difference but we’ll manage

One question: have I used the question and answer format correctly, or do you prefer that one and only one "quote" + "response" is given in each reply? I.e., if you send me a message that has several parts I want to reply to (as above), is this format acceptable or should each be its own separate post?

What you have here is perfect

I will be available to explore this inquiry together on a daily basis. Replies may just come at odd times over the next few days. Thanks for bearing with me!

Great! Thanks for letting me know

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Rali

[Pwkitchen]

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

Probably not much? I don't think there is some big fireworks show or levitation or glowing aura or anything like that. Life will still just life. Awareness will still be. Thoughts will still arise and dissolve. Emotions will still come up, be felt in the body, pass on. birds will sing. etc.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

I guess what would happen would be that I wouldn't take them personally - these things that arise - I wouldn't try to "own" them. I would understand they aren't "my" thoughts. There is no "I" at home. "I" is arising as is everything else. Things just kind of "are". There's no relation to me and so no particular way to feel about any of it except to just enjoy the being of it all.

3. What do you want not to happen?

I don't want another form of seeking. Another "path" ... or another thing to "try" ... I don't want another discipline or more "lessons" I just want someone to smack me on the forehead and say "LOOK, it's this." Sometimes I think I get it (although "I get" seems even problematic - language is difficult around this). There doesn't seem to be much here in the way of an "I". If you asked me "where is the I" i wouldn't be able to say. The best i could do is say it's some sort of tangled bundle of labels and corresponding emotions that sort of get "remembered" and bundled into this knot of sorts - but there isn't anything there really.

4. What are you hoping for?

Maybe answered above but I'll put it here to: I just want someone to smack me on the forehead and say "LOOK, it's this." I just want to see things as they are. Be in it as it is. To simply be. To not be all "hung up"

5. What is missing?

Nothing seems to be missing unless I am missing "it" - that's what I'm trying to find out. Is this it?: there is no separate sense of I - the most we can say "we are" is the act of awareness and in that sense we are and cannot be separate because there is simply nothing there - "I can't BE anything that I can observe/witness/be aware of in the very way that I am aware of it. I can't "be" I because I is a word and it is something I can sense and observe. So all I can land on truly is just Being. I am that I am, so to speak. I don't know. Maybe I'm ";thinking" again