good place

[graceabounds]

Hi send before writing what I intended about how well not you is not doing 😂😂😂😂
But shhhh don’t let it go to your illusion of me who doesn’t exist and never existed…

Nowhere to be found a doing or doer, just "preexisting condition" (that is too formal to hit the nail on the head by the way. Just the best I can do to describe this).

Yes. Even “preexisting condition” turns it into a thing that exists independently somewhere…
No doer or doing. Just happening.

Or as some say when as you say everything gets small when everything outside of sensation falls away, ‘just THIS’.

Not “happening to someone” or “someone allowing happening.” Just THIS unmistakable flow already underway before any commentary appears.


And notice that the thought “I am doing” arrives after the movement, impulse, speech, reaction, noticing. It is not in control of the doing.

(Even the recognition “there is no doer” is itself simply another appearance, unowned)

That claim of ownership is the whole illusion:
a narration stapled onto what already occurred.

And this is why it can feel so ordinary. Almost disappointingly obvious. The machinery of “me” is simply nowhere to be found outside thought-reference. So could it have ever been there?

[daisyrain]

writing what I intended about how well not you is not doing 😂😂😂😂

😄 Thanks Becc, I'll pass it on when I find him :)

There's something interpreted as a "controller". A tension that feels personal.

Does the tension itself say “I am a person”?
…or does thought say that ABOUT the tension?

Asking "what about this feels personal" yields a more direct look.
Thought: "God, I can't do this anymore"
(somehow session ended that day, starting new)

it's almost scary to question this.

Thought images of a "me" figure appear.
Questioning, what feels like "me" about them it's like there's nothing behind that.
Okay, again, from zero.

There's a sensation that feels like "me, in this world". Guess it's interpreted as such.
This movement of hugging (is it a movement? It seems like it might be here before movement) is crazy, it appears here. It's like it shows this sensation from a non-personal persepctive right now.

Huh, there's something about it (only?) being convinving when believing a thought that asserts time.

And notice that the thought “I am doing” arrives after the movement, impulse, speech, reaction, noticing. It is not in control of the doing.

I think that's correlated!
Yeah. huh.
It's not like this not funny :'D uh, so weird becc, so weird.

The question "is this happening to someone" just came and there was this same thing, about the question appearing,
uhm, aaaaah. So, it's like it's appearing "after" something, but then, um, that of course would require time.
The notion of "after something" is not useless here, but the flaw is in the question somehow. Aaah, what is this.
There's this pattern of something appearing "after the fact", but it's appearing here and now and, in fact,
"everything that happened before" is believing a thought.

Now okay, why would that matter? It is certainly a bit interesting, but frankly, I don't know.

That claim of ownership is the whole illusion:
a narration stapled onto what already occurred.

Yeah, maybe it's that, that same pattern.
It's not so much like there's clarity about doer or non doer, though the implication of time "not getting taken for granted" (or something like that) creating a "non depature".
That word probably means nothing, but it feels satisfying as a description.

Sort of every thought asserts movement.
And movement exists with respect to something that happend juuuuuuuust aaaalmost now. Which is that thought about time again.

The machinery of “me” is simply nowhere to be found outside thought-reference. So could it have ever been there?

I can't answer this

[daisyrain]

even looking at that text, here on that dashboard as a send message.

Without believing time it can't be something "I have written" exactly.
Even that last sentence. Even what I'm writing just now, as the letters come?
So yeah, the movement is happening. Does it happen before thought comes?
Curious

[graceabounds]

Yep ‘after’ is a concept. All of this is blah blah blah words… :)

The important thing to have noticed is that they are divisible not indivisible. The I AM has nothing to do with any of it. Just commentary. Out of time…

Questions like
“who is aware?”
“to whom is this happening?”
“what noticed this?”
can also accidentally imply there must be a thing standing apart noticing experience.

At some point the questions fall away.
And the words were written by no one. Not owned in the writing or in the reading.

What is missing?

[daisyrain]

hey becc

our chat has helped me a great ton today, emotionally speaking. I think the experience is a bit of psychological breakthrough today :)
started writing and writing and that already meant a lot.
still, I'd like to take a day or to off and come back to your most recent question. all that felt really intense.

so much love
nils :)

[graceabounds]

❤️

[daisyrain]

What is missing?

breathing occurs.
Thought occurs.
Sensations and labels occur.
hearing occurs.
thought: "I'm not sure where to look"

there was something that might be a candidate for an answer.
Somewhat of a blond spot.
breathing.
thought.
sight.

hm. I guess I'll take a walk with this :D

[graceabounds]

What comes up reading this?

I'm stepping over something, I'm overlooking something, and I'm increasingly annoyed and irritated by that.
The lecture I trust says that's it's the "me" I'm assuming to exist.
I feel instinctually driven, and I haven't figured out why.

I can't really tell you why I'm here now, but I felt like this forum came to me as an answer to a question I held for a good while.

What is present now?

[daisyrain]

What is missing?

What comes up/what feels right is looking, if the next thought is predicatable.
At times thoughts sort of fall away, and it feels, like that is actually when the question about whats missing gets asked here.
Though nothing yet.

What comes up reading this?

I'm not at all sure, but it's not nothing.
something in my stomach, like somethings almost falling.
Flush sensation on my cheeks.
A bit of melancholy. oh yeah, definitely some of that feeling.
lot of thoughts of course. Some about being a failure, no step further, some about rejecting this as self-pretentious.
that last thing is associated with a tension in the left leg and foot.
Thought: (I'm grasping at straws here to answer this today)

I feel instinctively driven, and I haven't figured out why.

There's this part. I guess coincidentally these last few days part of an answer came, I just notice that.
I wondered, why I'd hope for the awakening to come, and the best answer seemed to be to finally be rid of seeking-
But I wouldn't want seeking to subside, without getting an answer.
And frankly, I think that answer I want might be described as honesty or truth.
It's like that's the one thing I found that doesn't lose inherent meaning upon inspection. And it scares me as well.
(Hope I'm not derailing too much here Becc. I choose to indulge this for the moment, not knowing if it's right)
That "being scared" can be found throughout the legs, the waist. There's water in eyes and some sensation that is without answers. Hearing silent noise.
Thoughts, stories. (about me)
Well, those aren't "truth", for sure.
Thought: "I can remain with truth"
<- it feels like there's a spec of dirt in that sentence, in the word "I".
Thought: "I'm too tired to do this"

remaining.

shaking in jaw.

What is present now?

remaining with truth.

> Who's remaining?

Thought: "That step can't be taken"

non answer, no person.
hm

remaining.

stories come, but nothing indicating a person.

> Something personal maybe?

That question is not useless.
All of that probably might be confused as personal.

> is it?

somewhat? maybe. it would not be honest, to say "no".
hui. there seems to be "holding on" or tension almost.
thought: "I'm getting agitated".

> what is agitated?

oh noo. noise in legs. noise in hearing. noise in me (that feels true to say).

> noise in me?
heart is felt. somethings missing here.

> what's missing?

Yeah, this is direct experience. Surely. Holding onto thoughts drops.
There is a tension here .

I'm losing the question, but "I" can remain in truth.

guess remaining doesn't need to be left.
it feels cleansing.

[graceabounds]

I wondered, why I'd hope for the awakening to come, and the best answer seemed to be to finally be rid of seeking-
But I wouldn't want seeking to subside, without getting an answer.
And frankly, I think that answer I want might be described as honesty or truth

Is the one who seeks the one who would define truth? Define completion? Compared to what?

Can you see the attachment is not really to seeking, but to the hope that reality can be understood?

Look, what exactly feels unresolved?

[daisyrain]

It feels like I can only stare at this.
Aaah. Okay.

It's really like the only lever that works right now is seeing, if the next thought can be predicted.

I should try again tomorrow, but I wanted to answer something at least.

There's a thought that says: I can't what I meant by truth.

Sitting with this, walking with this.

If anything, it feels like am exercise that's about the absence of an answer.

Though I'm feeling like failure at this

[daisyrain]

The inquiery that does come here is a bit like:
Noticing all the things I couldn't have predicted.

I'm a bit sorry for not really delving into your recent instructions. I wouldn't know how to do it without the perception of "forcing it needlessly" occuring.

I'm.so.scared. objectively speaking, a lot of emotional material seems to come up. Subjectively speaking.. well, I find that sounds like a huge mess!
I wouldn't even want to be anywhere else.

I'm just so, so, so glad I've got a couple days off work right now. That is such a blessing

[graceabounds]

The absence of the answer is the answer…
Keep turning around and looking at the mechanism that is not satisfied with no answer. Can it be found outside of thought? Of mind?

And as the flow of the weekend is here,
is there anything that needs predicting?

What does the illusion of predicting give the body?

[daisyrain]

tackling this one bit by bit with own questions that helped.

Where is no answer

Thre's an assumption it would be hard to find.
But "taking things as they are" is already providing "no answer", which is really such a joke to write down.

is that a doing Does it need to be done?

it's not obvious, but that might just be an afterthought on top

the mechanism that is not satisfied with no answer. Can it be found outside of thought? Of mind?

Thought: "How could this be answered?"

it also feels like there's an actual mechanism here, and that can't be right. Soo, what does it feel like?
Torso. Haw. Leeeeeeg.
Feels like fog. Sure enough an image fog is kind of here.

That fog feels like body. Face. Under the eyes. Lips. Forehead.
Story: "There's always been tension in the forehead"

There seems to be a lot of desire and want to escape reality (into awakening) here.

Arms, cheeks, Lips, Leeeeeeg. ouch ouch there.
Huuuh. A rush coming though entire body.

Asking the question again.

Face sensation comes. Toes and Foot.
There seems to be a conflict whether "I want this even".
Observing that.
Booooody. Full body sensation.

And as the flow of the weekend is here,
is there anything that needs predicting?

feeling great fulfillment getting no answer here :)

What does the illusion of predicting give the body?

an excuse to go unconscious / to not look at something?

[daisyrain]

(I wrote): The inquiery that does come here is a bit like:
Noticing all the things I couldn't have predicted.

I think this might have been worded poorly, and a bit of a miscommunication happened.
Not trying to predict anything here.
Another way of wording this is: >Looking at whether I really did that, or if it just came without my say in it.<

aaah. it's silly, but thinking that might have been miscommunicated stressed "me".

OOOKAY.

SO, what I actually wanted to write is that a mental model I had got questioned.
I'm delving a little into memories and thought here to write anything really.

I had this mental model of: Okay, there's some "mysterious substance" here, and thoughts are a really wonky reflection of that, like an LLM (or AI Model like GPT-4) that gets asked some text and soerte of goes of the rails in answering. BUT, but, I thought there is some underlying ground of truth: Wants, Desires, Agenda.

NOW. It seems thoughts might not reflect anything but themselves. No Agenda even underlying anything.

In different words: There was (is?) an assumed assumption, that there is an inherent agenda here, separate from thoughts, that some thoughts reflect and resonate with.