No-self

[Chrisisit]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is nothing at the centre of experience experiencing it. There is only experience itself. And also that there is no one controlling it; no doer, no thinker. Everything is happening and doing itself.

What are you looking for at LU?
An experienced guide to give more structure to my seeking as my own has been mostly erratic. I feel like I’m shooting in the dark. I hope that regular feedback will guide my seeking in the right direction. I have picked up pointers in books and YouTube videos and some have been helpful, but whenever I feel like I’m making progress it seems to slip away again a few days later and it’s like I’ve made no progress at all. I’m hoping that someone at LU can at least point me in the right direction.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope that a guide can pinpoint exactly what it is I’ve been missing; that they can help me unravel the confusion and frustration I’ve been feeling in my search for the truth. Whether it helps or not I would be very grateful to anyone willing to guide me as I cannot even find a meditation teacher in my area. All I want is to see the truth but I have been completely alone and lost in my search so far.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been meditating on and off for about 10 years. I have decided to throw myself into it in the last 6 months or so. I tried seeing through the illusion myself a few years ago but was unsuccessful and eventually gave up in frustration.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

whenever I feel like I’m making progress it seems to slip away again a few days later and it’s like I’ve made no progress at all.

Watch these, please.

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

This is just a beginning.

Loving,

[Chrisisit]

Hi Stacy, I’m so sorry for the late response. The email on my phone stopped working and I had no idea until today. Thanks for your message. I really appreciate your time and will post every day.

How will life change?

I imagine that life will feel lighter and less serious. I’d like to say more but I honestly don’t know what’s on the other side.

How will you change?

I think I will become breezier, more at ease and less distracted or trapped in my thoughts. I hope I will become more considerate and less self-involved.

What will be different?

How I see my experience. The character in my head will lose his influence. Everything will just ‘be’ without effort. I’m happy to be wrong about all of these answers. These are just hunches.

What is missing?

Curve ball, this one. I have no idea, sorry. What could be missing?

Please call me Chris. I’m very happy to make your acquaintance :) I’m in GMT.

I watched the videos you sent. They seem to be more concerned with issues after awakening? Do they relate to the quote above?

Best,
Chris

[Anastacia42]

Hi Chris

Yes, videos are relevant after, but can help keep you from expecting 24/7 awareness.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Chrisisit]

Hi Stacy,

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Frustration that I can’t see it. It seems like it should be simple to see but the harder I look the more lost I feel. It feels like there is someone here. When I’m thinking about what I should have said to so and so or what I could say at the party to look suave and cool it really seems like that person is ‘me’. I don’t see why it’s so hard to see that it isn’t.

Thanks,
Chris

[Anastacia42]

Thank you. It's just a habit.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Chrisisit]

Hi Stacy, crikey that was quick!

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes I think I understand. Thoughts are real but their content is a story. The story is not real in the way that sensations, sounds etc. are real. Is this what you’re getting at?

Thanks,
Chris

[Anastacia42]

Yes. Now try this.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Chrisisit]

Hi Stacy, just to be clear- do you want me to put aside how I would normally label things? So right now there is birdsong outside my window. But you want me to put aside the label ‘birdsong’ and instead just label it ‘sound’? Should I I do this for all sounds?

Chris

[Anastacia42]

Follow the examples.

On the left is your usual description. On the right is only direct experience. The point is to learn to distinguish between our labels and thoughts and the direct experience.

Loving,

[Chrisisit]

Ok, I’ve already started a list. I’ll keep at it and come back to you later.

Best,
Chris

[Chrisisit]

Hi Stacy, I can keep going if you like but here’s what I have so far.

Legs on the bed- sensation
Birdsong outside- sound
Looking at my phone- image
Tongue in my mouth- sensation
Traffic in the distance- sound
Listening to a recording of me playing the piano- sound
Cold water in my mouth- sensation
Drying hands on towel- sensation
Watching my omelette as it fries- image
Listening to the kettle boil- sound
Heat in my hands as I hold cup of hot water- sensation
Eggy taste of my omelette- taste
Rich creaminess of my milk- taste
Feeling of feet on the floor- sensation
The cold air in my bedroom- sensation
Wind on my face- sensation
Eating a snickers bar- taste, also the feeling of squishing it with my teeth- sensation

I’m going to work now so will be offline for the next 5/6 hours.

Thanks,
Chris

[Anastacia42]

Yes Chris

There are no thoughts listed. Please include some thoughts. But basically you've got it.

Loving

[Chrisisit]

Hi Stacy, do you want me to keep going with it?

Chris

[Anastacia42]

Please list some thoughts.