Would love guidance for seeing no self more clearly

[ostrich]

Thanks for checking in :)

Sorry for the delayed response and not responding after the break. There's been quite a bit of resistance towards mindfulness, not operating from the 'self' and engaging on this forum again :(

It's been alright. I feel like I've gone back to operating from the 'self' and back to how I was before you started guiding me.

Do you have any recommendations on exercises for getting back on track?

[graceabounds]

Hello there!

I feel like I've gone back to operating from the 'self' and back to how I was before

Right now, in immediate experience, can you find a past version of yourself? Or is that simply a thought appearing?

Is mindfulness something that 'you' are in control of doing or not doing?

Resistance is the doorway. Not to fix, but to enter straight inside and expose what it’s made of. As you feel this resistance:
What is actually present (raw, actual sensation)?
What thoughts are labeling it?
Without those thoughts, what remains?

[ostrich]

Right now, in immediate experience, can you find a past version of yourself? Or is that simply a thought appearing?

I can't find a past version of myself, only thoughts about the past version of myself.

Is mindfulness something that 'you' are in control of doing or not doing?

I have thoughts that I am in control but mindfulness seems to just happen randomly. Something will remind me to be mindful and then mindfulness returns. I think I may be able to set up conditions to have it happen more frequently (e.g. setting a recurring alarm).

Resistance is the doorway. Not to fix, but to enter straight inside and expose what it’s made of. As you feel this resistance:
What is actually present (raw, actual sensation)?

Been trying to catch this the past few days.I've noticed two main patterns. One is sleepiness and tiredness. The second is that they'll be thoughts on why I should do something else and this drive to do that.

What thoughts are labeling it?

The thoughts are mainly in the form that I should go do something else.

Without those thoughts, what remains?

Some combination of sensations of tension in the head, sleepiness, tiredness and/or discomfort

[graceabounds]

Good. You just saw clearly:
* No past self, only thoughts about it
* No control over “mindfulness”, it appears when it appears
* Resistance = sensation + thoughts of redirecting

they'll be thoughts on why I should do something else and this drive to do that.

Slow that down. Is the ‘drive’ anything more than:
* sensation in the body
* a thought saying “do something else”

Look carefully. Is there an entity generating that urge?
Or is the urge just… appearing.


re: Mindfulness
You’re treating “mindfulness” as something valuable that should be happening more.

When there is NO mindfulness (lost in thought, distracted, sleepy etc) is that moment somehow outside of experience?

When you are “not mindful” what exactly is missing?
(In other words look at the raw experience of being lost, what is actually absent?)

I think I may be able to set up conditions to have it happen more frequently (e.g. setting a recurring alarm).

Fine, those can happen.

But did you choose the thought to set an alarm? Or did that thought just appear like any other?

When an alarm goes off, does that always result the mindfulness that is envisioned? Is there a thought-image of future here?

[ostrich]

they'll be thoughts on why I should do something else and this drive to do that.
Slow that down. Is the ‘drive’ anything more than:
* sensation in the body
* a thought saying “do something else”

Look carefully. Is there an entity generating that urge?
Or is the urge just… appearing.

No, it's just sensations and thoughts about the sensations. I can't find an entity generating the urge. The urge just appears.

You’re treating “mindfulness” as something valuable that should be happening more.

When there is NO mindfulness (lost in thought, distracted, sleepy etc) is that moment somehow outside of experience?

It's not outside of experience

When you are “not mindful” what exactly is missing?
(In other words look at the raw experience of being lost, what is actually absent?)

When I'm "not mindful", it's as if I am the thoughts. I guess what's missing is the non-identification with the thoughts and sensations.

I think I may be able to set up conditions to have it happen more frequently (e.g. setting a recurring alarm).

Fine, those can happen.

But did you choose the thought to set an alarm? Or did that thought just appear like any other?

that thought just appeared like any other

When an alarm goes off, does that always result the mindfulness that is envisioned? Is there a thought-image of future here?

no it doesn't. sometimes I just ignore it. there is a thought-image of the future when I imagine setting up an alarm

[graceabounds]

When I'm "not mindful", it's as if I am the thoughts. I guess what's missing is the non-identification with the thoughts and sensations.

AS IF is doing some heavy lifting here…

When a thought appears is there ever a moment where you become the thought?
Does it come with an owner attached? Or does ownership get added after, as another thought? (just like the thought-image of the future alarm)

Look again at “being identified.”
When identification is happening, what is it actually made of? What is actually happening in experience?

List only what is directly observable without a layer of interpretation.

Is there ever a gap where experience disappears?

[ostrich]

When a thought appears is there ever a moment where you become the thought?

No there isn't

Does it come with an owner attached? Or does ownership get added after, as another thought? (just like the thought-image of the future alarm)

Ownership gets added afterwards as a thought

Look again at “being identified.”
When identification is happening, what is it actually made of? What is actually happening in experience?

It seems like the identification is made of thoughts. In experience, it feels like my attention is mostly on the thoughts. Other things are happening too such as sensations but there isn't as much attention on it. It's as if the most of experience is "ignored"

Is there ever a gap where experience disappears?

No experience is always happening

[graceabounds]

Great, stay right here. Keep looking.

The identification IS thought. Do you have any control over them? Are you responsible for thoughts?

When attention is “on thoughts”, what is that, actually?

Can you find something called “attention” separate from:
1 the thought
2 the sensation of ‘focus’?

Or is there just…
thoughts happening…
sensations happening…
No controller moving attention, just a shift appearing?

It's as if the most of experience is "ignored"

is anything actually missing from experience,
or is that another thought labeling what’s happening?

Check directly.

[ostrich]

Great, stay right here. Keep looking.

The identification IS thought. Do you have any control over them? Are you responsible for thoughts?

No and no

When attention is “on thoughts”, what is that, actually?

Not sure how to answer this. I think it's a combination of a sensation in my head and a thought that I am the sensation and thoughts.

Can you find something called “attention” separate from:
1 the thought
2 the sensation of ‘focus’?

Hm... no, I think "attention" is what I'm calling a particular thought and sensation combination.

Or is there just…
thoughts happening…
sensations happening…
No controller moving attention, just a shift appearing?

My sense is that it is just thoughts and sensations happening but it doesn't quite feel that way. I feel like I keep having "controller" thoughts and buying into them.

It's as if the most of experience is "ignored"
is anything actually missing from experience,
or is that another thought labeling what’s happening?

It's just another thought that's labelling what's happening

[graceabounds]

I think it's a combination of a sensation in my head and a thought that I am the sensation and thoughts.

Excellent, yes! Keep noticing this. Is there any link outside of thought?

Is there another sensation that is ‘I’ or ‘me’? If so is there a connection there or an assumption?

I feel like I keep having "controller" thoughts and buying into them.

Here’s an exercise that may support in slowing that down and breaking it up. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labeled ‘body’.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labeled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?
(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?